$300,000.00 agri- instability welfare to the rich cheques.

[cottonpicken]

The whole system is so totally screwed there is no
point in feeling guilty about government handouts.

Workers pay into social security to support those that
are retread and the new workers will never see a
dime(or one that buys anything).

Tax payers back stop mortgages of multi million
dollar condos in hongcuver who's buyers are simply
speculators.

Tax payers pay for health care costs of people who
don't take care of themselves.

Etc

etc

etc

etc

[parsley]

If it was announced that the entire
AgriInvest/Stability program would be terminated
in 2013, is there anyone on this website who
could NOT survive? Pars

[farmaholic]

"but they
refuse to participate because they feel the
principle of the program is not the direction
agriculture should be headed."

In what direction do they think Ag should be heading?

[parsley]

Agriculture produces tremendous weath. Many
companies and governments look to agriculture
as a source of income.

Farmers create the basic blocks, Level One, of
wealth. There is ample demand and money for
farmgate production that can be realized at Level
One.

Instead, farm managers will argue they need to
lobby so they will be subsidized at Level One.

They view themselves as capable managers.

What is wrong with this picture? Pars

[farmaholic]

"What is wrong with this picture"...

Lack of control of:

Price of production(quite unique)
Cost of production(we are not alone)
Weather(huge affect)
etc
etc
etc

Even the best managers get dealt hands that no matter how they play they lose. And that I beleive is what the safety nets were meant for.

[parsley]

"Cost of production"

Most farmers chase more and more bushels.
= Higher production costs.

Farmers can chase higher farmgate prices.
= costs not rising.

[bgmb]

If a gov lender is offering me 20 year money @ 5% who am I to say no. hope you have fun picking up the tab parsley.

And I won't complain about the money spent on BS organic research. lol

[farmaholic]

Parsley:
Yes we are production oriented......

farmaholic posted Mar 3, 2012 13:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parsley: When producers have the ability to price their products according to costs of production and built in profit margins then.....

[parsley]

You want a guarantee, farmaholic. There is no
such thing in a free market.

[parsley]

You speak like the Greek employee who
negotiated with his government for a wage and
benefit guarantee for the next twenty years, only
to find himself being told by Germany what his
slashed wages will now be, how much money he
can take out of the country, and when to pee.

Maybe that's your idea of good management, but
it's not mine. We differ. You want taxpayers to
underwrite your risk; many other farmers feel they
have the management ability to underwrite their
own risk. I do encourage farmers to lobby for less
government tax dollars. Not more.

There are lots of farmers who do not enrol in
Government programs, such as crop insurance,
grants , Agri-invest, or welfare , etc. Nor are they
stupid; or poor; or mooches; or lazy. They
manage just as well without them. Thats what you
call long range planning. Pars.

[farmaholic]

Just the ability to price my production to cover costs and make fair margin.

Few manufacturers are price takers, they simply won't produce lower than their costs or at least they won't for long. Weather would probably have the biggest affect on Ag production that most other manufacturing industies, I am not saying others aren't affected but likely not to the same degree.

No I don't want guarantees, just a recognition that we are dealing with some pretty unique circumstances in Ag.

[stonepicker]

For a fee that amounts to pocket change, a person
is foolish NOT to be in agri-stability. If you've had a
string of poor years then it's probably not gonna
work that great. Its not designed to be a money
maker. it's there to stabilize your income if you had
a bad year. We've had good years here, this year
was a bad one and agristability is paying off. i
would've made more money with an average crop.
But it sure smooths things out in a year like last
year and no you don't have to rework your figures
to get a payment. It seems like some people think if
your getting money that the person getting it must
be cheating. Give me a break and get on with life,
no program is gonna make everyone happy