$300,000.00 agri- instability welfare to the rich cheques.

[parsley]

pgluca, that was so damn good you made me
skip! Hah.

burnt, I hadn't listed to Dire Straits for years! I
started a thread for songs; pgluca's fault! Pars

[cottonpicken]

Lol,had to google that guy,did not recognize him.

The economic stuff i was looking at today was the tier
1 leverage ratios,impaired loans/tier 1,impaired
loans/total assets of canadian banks.

And guessing on their off balance sheet derivatives
exposure.



In between quad rides in the snow with kids.

The stuff i posted here was simple logic.

The only question in my head right now is are they
solvent?

[sumdumguy]

Cotton, what did you find out about Cdn bank
leverage exposure? Spit it out.

[sumdumguy]

We should be able to vote these programs out,
just like we vote politicians out.

[riders2010]

Sumdumguy, it can happen, if we expose how this program helps the lucky weather areas, people that do not or should not even need assistance getting 1,000,000 cheques as pars stated. It's really a simple formula if you had great weather and great crops the program will send you a welfare check if you have a loss. What taxpayer is gonna support that? So let's say now that next year prices for all grains hit the tank,that is the norm for all countries. Should taxpayers be on the hook to guarantee the next 4 years levels of this artificial coverage?

We don need to wait for an election. Get Market Place, W-5, BNN, your local radio and tv, all these tv reports informed, wouldn't take long for the public to realize this is in the leagues of a corruption scandal, when you see the corporate ventures that will only rent you land if you have a high margin, what translates into we will only rent to you if you are able to suck the most governmnet tax money.

A picture of a farmer and his family in Mexico on the beach while a check is waiting in the mailbox because he had 5 good weather years and his own money in the bank.

Another picture of a foot of water across the entire field swaths floating across the grid road and those working 2 jobs to save the farm, kids going without, and due to the formula no check in the mailbox but collector notices.

Show how that your income is based 90% on the weather and the program is bureaucraticly designed to sift through the last 10% of the factor, it's completely nuts.

Show how you have 5 years of great weather in huge margin, you hit your head on the airseeder and start seeding canola 3 inches deep, no worries you'll get your welfare check.

2 farmers side by side. Both environmentally and industry responsible people. To not encourage or spread disease such as clubroot etc, and as the experts say to not push rotations FARMER A seeds mostly canola, Farmer B seeds canary seed. The price of canola ends up 5 bucks a bushel, canary ends up 25 bucks a bushel. As it works out both these responsible good farmers have an average crop but for the program just because of rotation Farmer B now has 4 or 5 times the margin. Are these both good farmers? Which one is a better farmer? Doesn't matter, the one that lucked out on the canary has alot less worry than the one that seeded canola.

Now shouldn't there just be a program designed that if you get no rain or you get 40 inches of rain, frost, flood, etc that there is some simple insurance that actually covers basic costs only for a fair premium. One that is not bureaucratic heavy sifting through mounds and mounds of paper requiring hours and hours of work to determine that you have 1 bushel coverage difference than your neighbor. A program based on what actually happenned on your farm this year not on how lucky you were to pick the right crop on the right year, or be punished for disasters beyond your control, over 5 years past or 10 years past?

[bgmb]

Riders, you just wont let this go so I will bite again.

I can see your point on how if you have good production you benefit more from crop insurance agristability etc.

I would argue as I did above it is very very rare to have a prolonged period of no crop on a farm only due to bad weather and not management but I suppose it can happen.

In any case if wetness is your issue there is the unseeded acres program which in manitoba this year paid guys that sat on their asses all spring $95 per acre. Which is a pretty good deal if you are older, have no debt, and generally hire a fair but of custom work. Not only that but these program farmers who didnt even attempt to put a crop in also have significant fertilizer cost savings for the upcoming year if they do manage to motivate themselves to seed a crop.

Better yet if these farmer's that didn't seed an acre in 2011 but did fertilize their farm fall 2010 or spring 2011 the fertilizer expense as well as their fallowing expenses to go against the $95 per acre they recieved from the gov. which means they probably have about a zero margin for the 2011 agristability program year. This means they will trigger a payment and possibly quite a large one due to the fact they put their fertilizer on last fall.

Now the kicker is most of that fert in our area is still there it was not lost. Agronomists are saying confirmed by soil tests there is 100 available pounds of nitrogen on land that was anhydroused in the fall of 2010 but not seeded spring 2011.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe there is any way Agristab can say you have fert inventory in the ground.

Our farm like ours and many others in the area made every attempt possible to seed and we did seed our entire crop in an area that was probably 60-70% seeded overall at most. I don't call this luck, I call it determination.

Like the guys that didn't seed a single acre we will basically break even this year. However we still grew a couple million dollars worth of grain and spent a good mill on seed fert and chemical. Yes we will get some gov money but a fraction of what the guy that seeded nothing will.

So basically at the end of the day if I would have chose to do nothing this spring I would have had a checque for over a million bucks from the gov and I would have spent the summer at the lake instead of making ruts with my drill and sprayer and bouncing over them with my swather and combine. But it didn't happen that way and I have the comfort of knowing I would still be in business without the gov because I still grew a crop.

In short I think you have to ask why the guys that "need" the money "need" the money.

My thoughts.

[farmaholic]

Ok, everyone comes down to the lowest common denominator. Don't deny me my coverage. Take it up with the Ag Ministers. Everyone knows it is punishing the people with declining margins, NOT MY FAULT. If I was you I wouldn't be happy either but I don't think I would deny my neighbour his peace of mind. If you were on the other side of the fence I beleive you might be talking different. I am on your side, I wouldn't be happy either if my margins slipped to the point of being redundant but I wouldn't say you don't deserve coverage if you had healthy margins. Its not like I'm trying to justify my payments, we haven't received anything from agristability for 8 years and I am more than ok with that, but when I do need it I want it to be there. All I ask is don't punish everyone else.

[riders2010]

Really, you expect me and not just me but thousands of farmers in the hardest hit repeat areas to say it's nice to see someone getting a million bucks, so they can come take over our land backed by the gov of canada?

This is business, we are in one of those repeat disaster areas, it isn't here for us, but it is welfare for people that don't need it.

Surprising who reads these comments on here, one of the guys starting this got phone call saying shut up before you ruin it for all of us, his reply was fu with the "all of us" part until all of us get something out of this, a little bit of nervousness that the general public is about to be made aware of the numbers and who is getting it.

We gave the ministers their chance. They know this is happenning but they want us to just shut up so that the big take-over can continue. There is a whole lot more to this story here.
Do some research and see who is taking over land, who they are connected to, and with who's money they are doing it with. I doubt the average tax payer is gonna be pleased.

I am not the wheel rolling this forward, just doing my part.

If you really believe what you are saying, you get on the phone to the ag minister, not me, and get something done for the real disaster areas and we'll stop.

[riders2010]

Thanks bgmb for highlighting another of million factors of how the margin is formed for this crap program. You just given an example of how stupid this is. You tried hard someone else didn't.

The problem is we are you without a margin, we didn't sit on our ass either, I can show you where our combine sunk until it hit the straw chopper, pulled the back wheels off getting it out in what originally was a 40 to 50 bushel acre stand of canola that yielded about 5 after it shelled, the swath was froze in the water etc. Do you know of a way to harvest 40 bushel acre canola floating across the grid road?

[sumdumguy]

cais helped farmers when commodity prices took
a nose dive in 2003.

But really, mixed farmers have always gotten the
shaft. Their hard work with the cattle was their
own AgriStability.

Like every program that goes on too long, the
distortions get bigger and bigger as guys learn
the ropes.