$300,000.00 agri- instability welfare to the rich cheques.

[bgmb]

If a gov lender is offering me 20 year money @ 5% who am I to say no. hope you have fun picking up the tab parsley.

And I won't complain about the money spent on BS organic research. lol

[farmaholic]

Parsley:
Yes we are production oriented......

farmaholic posted Mar 3, 2012 13:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parsley: When producers have the ability to price their products according to costs of production and built in profit margins then.....

[parsley]

You want a guarantee, farmaholic. There is no
such thing in a free market.

[parsley]

You speak like the Greek employee who
negotiated with his government for a wage and
benefit guarantee for the next twenty years, only
to find himself being told by Germany what his
slashed wages will now be, how much money he
can take out of the country, and when to pee.

Maybe that's your idea of good management, but
it's not mine. We differ. You want taxpayers to
underwrite your risk; many other farmers feel they
have the management ability to underwrite their
own risk. I do encourage farmers to lobby for less
government tax dollars. Not more.

There are lots of farmers who do not enrol in
Government programs, such as crop insurance,
grants , Agri-invest, or welfare , etc. Nor are they
stupid; or poor; or mooches; or lazy. They
manage just as well without them. Thats what you
call long range planning. Pars.

[farmaholic]

Just the ability to price my production to cover costs and make fair margin.

Few manufacturers are price takers, they simply won't produce lower than their costs or at least they won't for long. Weather would probably have the biggest affect on Ag production that most other manufacturing industies, I am not saying others aren't affected but likely not to the same degree.

No I don't want guarantees, just a recognition that we are dealing with some pretty unique circumstances in Ag.

[stonepicker]

For a fee that amounts to pocket change, a person
is foolish NOT to be in agri-stability. If you've had a
string of poor years then it's probably not gonna
work that great. Its not designed to be a money
maker. it's there to stabilize your income if you had
a bad year. We've had good years here, this year
was a bad one and agristability is paying off. i
would've made more money with an average crop.
But it sure smooths things out in a year like last
year and no you don't have to rework your figures
to get a payment. It seems like some people think if
your getting money that the person getting it must
be cheating. Give me a break and get on with life,
no program is gonna make everyone happy

[bgmb]

But the gov research into organic crop production is ok. Right Parsley

[parsley]

If the government pays farmers 5% interest on
AgI, while a commercial bank is paying 1%,
where does the government get the money to
pay you? Matching dollars coming from.....uh,
the tooth fairy?

This is about direction. Which direction should ag
be heading? That is an issue each one of you
should be deciding. More government teat vs
independence. That is the issue.

It's one that is going to make the self-backpatting
free enterprise "managers" squirm and lash out.

You can't have it both ways. Agriculture will head
in one direction more than the other.

Who do you want to be.

Organic research, engineering research,
biotechnology research... You should well know
by now that I've never had a problem with
government allocated university research dollars
for any industry, as long as the information is
owned by the public funders. I do have a
problem with research that if publicly funded, is
privately patented for only the profit, while
downloading all liabilities on the unsuspecting
harmed. Pars

[parsley]

Stonepicker, you seem to think gov programs are
a no brainer for YOU. I'm questioning really how
good is it for the burdened taxpayer, how is it for
for any up-to-their ass-in-credit government, and
thus ultimately, for the overall future of farming.
Hint: think about greek and Italian and Icelandic
and portugese and Polish farmers. Uh huh. Pars.

[farmaholic]

Well said Stonepicker. It's only meant to be there when you need it. I don't understand the scorn.

[burnt]

Good points, parsley.

It is frightening to see how few people get the concept of taking personal responsibility for their business choices.

And then they have difficulty understanding the consumers derision for them for taking government money to help keep their multimillion dollar enterprises afloat?

[farmaholic]

An earlier post from another thread:

parsley posted Feb 28, 2012 20:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I decided to look at our culture, today, with fresh
eyes, because I too often knock my culture.

Our work ethic is phenomenal. In Fijji, I was
amazed at their climate, the growing season, the
lush plants and orchids and fruit,all wild, with the
locals indulging in their particular entrenched
inactivity: sitting, and standing, and lounging,
chewing, and glaze-eyed; the streets not swept,
trails into the countryside. They obviously were
content with their lifestyle.

I visit a farm in Saskatchewan and Im exhausted
from watching the work of others.

We have a culture of work and decency and
independence and freedom and innovation worth
working to preserve. Im not ready to concede to
Midsle east culture, speaking mandarin and
eating rice for breakfast. I don't see any culture
out there I'd rather become, do you?

If not, roll up your sleeves. Nothing guarantees
our future and continuance like our heads up and
our asses down approach to success Pars


Reread the short middle paragraph, hardly sounds like a bunch of bums sitting around waiting for the welfare cheque.

[rockpile]

A very interesting discussion and both sides have
merit. However, consider the following: If all
farmable land on the Prairies were operated by say
5 or 10 large farms, there would be no need of any
form of Govt support. Risk and margin would be
covered off. Apparently very few of you visited
Shaney's post on farming in the Ukraine where the
top 36 or 37 farms exceed 100,000 hectares or
over a quarter million acres each. Do you go that
route, or maintain the status quo of smaller
multiple operators preserving a historical rural
community? (could be called social engineering).
Another thing. All talk is about Govt programs. Why
can't the private sector commercially offer the same
thing? Ever hear of insurance companies? You can't
buy private crop insurance (available in the US) or
income protection (available to other industries).
You can buy private hail insurance and guess what
those companies continue to survive and profit. The
reason you can't have access to private options is
because the Govt doesn't allow it. As long as it is
actuarially sound, the private sector could provide
this function and I think it is a premature
assumption to say they couldn't. Govt likes to run
the show because then they can control your
decisions, right?

[parsley]

MP's will argue they aren't bums sitting around
either, and when they hot the chamber to vote
they convince themselves that they should top up
their pension funds too, with a higher interest rate
than the banks are actually paying

So we question them. Not because they are lazy,
but because they selfishly eye up my money and
your money, aka tax dollars, so it becomes their
moneyaka interest earnings.

Why should taxpayers shell out 5% interest to
MP's and 5% interest to Agri-invest. The people
who pay can't receive the same rate.

This was the most important part of my
message:

" Nothing guarantees our future and continuance
like our heads up and  our asses down approach
to success ". And head down and ass up.

Farmers work so hard, and they are so skilled.
That is a sure road to success. Not govt
handouts .

Will we manage using work and skill, or using
lobbying, ag welfare and favored
deals. What do you want to be?

burnt, do you see 'now' as an ag crossroads
period? Pars  

[stonepicker]

Parsely, are you blaming the greek, italian, etc.
farmers for their countries debt problems? Their
problems come from a huge government workforce,
very low retirement age(57?)no work ethic and a
sense of entitlement by most of their people, in my
opinion. Canada spends more every year on indian
affairs ( a lot more ) than they do on farming
programs. The successful countries throughout
history were the ones who could feed their people.
Farming better be important in canada, nobody is
gonna get rich off of our programs, but in a
disaster they're nice to have. Sure i would like to
see a fiscally responsible country and government, i
would be all for government making big cuts right
across the board.