$300,000.00 agri- instability welfare to the rich cheques.

[bgmb]

Also Riders,

It takes a long time to erode coverage if you did have good production at one time. because if you are in crop ins and agri stability only one pays so the coverage only takes a hit on one program. Both drop lows and highs.

What gets to me is I think some of the guys that dont get payments on bad years are maybe some of the same ones who try to manipulate the program to get payouts (no fert etc.) and therefore lower their coverage.

[parsley]

Distance your overview from the local issue
which is , "Did my neighbor get more than I got?"

Broaden your view. Think like a government:
What will happen if we keep borrowing money to
hand out? Will the fertilizer companies sell less
bags if we yank Stability? Chemical companies?
Should we keep subsidizing farmers or switch to
giving that money to pipeline projects? Should
we shift Prairie farmers' subsidy money to
Ontario because they have a terrible credit
crunch coming?

Play pretend!!

Then think like a taxpayer

"I work hard owning a bakery.Why the he'll
should farmers get subsidized gas, subsidized
insurance and me to pad the interest rates for
their govt matching savings accounts?"

"I get no interest on my savings. Why the he'll
save?"
-----------
I understand the merits and the negatives of the
program. And of course farmers rwvert back to
comparing what they got with with what the
neighbor got. Envy. But the big questions are:
Do you actually run a viable farm business if the
government needs to subsidize you? IThen think
like a taxpayers a profitable business one that
begs for tax dollars or one that generates tax
dollars? Should governments be propping up
any industry? And the biggest question: Can any
deeply indebted government afford to
continuously fund any business?

Ask your family the basic issue questions and
compare their answers to your answers. Pars

[parsley]

sb:
Is a profitable business one that  constantly begs
for tax dollars, or one that generates tax  
dollars?

[riders2010]

We had the drought in 2002 or 03 the frost of 04 then the 05 canola that we could swath floated over the grid road, next year seeded no acres then had half a crop then a crop but the high does not count on this program so what I could produce doesn't count. Then what happenned here recently freewheat and others stated similar things, but doesn't have to because it's common knowledge except to the media and the public that the areas that could use help the most don't get any out of that program.

As far as the numbers you mean you cannot figure it out? Don't think it true? As far as where the info is from that 300,000 is by not the biggest payouts, go ask your accountant people here have. I think the names of people and the amounts should be posted, it's tax money why not then we will see who's collecting. If we had 4 years of what we can grow happen I'd love the program too but we are not gonna be around to make it, like so many others that could have used not even that much to help out.

What gets me is guys that are guranteed a payout for the next 4 years giving the finger to guys that really had disasterous weather. Real selfish assholes, but that is the kind of farmers these programs are spawning. But I should not say all because there are some that at least sympathize and understand, maybe have half an ounce of morals.

Anyhow our goal since we have nothing left to loose now is get everyone paying taxes informed on how the rich are being subsidized welfare style by this program, how it is harmful to some communities in the hard hit areas and a bonus for those that aren't etc etc. Either people get on board to make changes so that fairness applies to all retroactively or scrap it.

We'll see what happens.

[cottonpicken]

What would an acre of land be worth and what would
a bushel of wheat be worth if the western economies
didn't distort the global trade with global trade
subsidy distortions?

Lower and higher respectfully,i bet.

The market could/would figure it out.

[pgluca]

The only justification for programs that are subsidized by all tax payers is the "level playing field " one, where other countries are doing it so we have to too. And that is weak for two reasons, one is that any actual value added by the subsidy gets capitalized into land values, rents or even input costs and in the end looses its value and distorts things. The other would be the example of New Zealand where they took away everything and those who were not over leveraged and good managers did well.
And the single mother in Auckland isn't paying for a chunk of it.

[farmaholic]

Ok, I'm with Parsley, nothing for anyone, sink or swim. NO more social programs of any kind anymore. No more winners and losers--everyone left to their own devices. No more guaranteed income supplement, welfare, baby cheques, pensions. No more equalization of any kind. Get off your lazy asses, too bad if "luck" never came your way. If you can't make ends meet--get another job. Free enterprise for all.

Unfortunately we do live in a free enterprise business environment that needs socialism to equalize everything.

Holy crap, beginning to sound like BTO, scary.

[parsley]

Interesting idea, cott. You'd be interesting to have
a beer with. lol A level is to a carpenter what a
free market is to an economy. Pars

[farmaholic]

I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame subsidies for distorting land prices around here. I blame $13.00 canola, $9.00 peas, $14.50 flax, $15.00 lentils, 12.50 canaryseed, with decent yields and an area lucky enough not to have suffered any major production problems for awhile, all without the elusive lucrative subsidy. I truly feel blessed.

[parsley]

Farmaholic, I don't think farmers have lazy asses;
quite the contrary.

But Canadian farmers have shown an increasing
penchant for preparing studies and scheming
and wangling and niggling and lobbying to
wangle more tax dollars from all governments.

I'm merely noting: "Look at what farmers are
doing. You're at the trough again.". It's so easy to
get in the habit. And they are some farm players
who pride themselves on always getting
"something for nothing."

They are the truly expensive no-goods who do
harm to both givers and takers.

I'm going to guesss farmaholic, if you seclared
yourself subsidy-free, you'd do well. Especially
when you branded your product for your buyers:

"This 100% subsidy-free food has been grown
especially for you by farmaholic"

I'll buy shares. Pars

[farmaholic]

Interesting concept.

[cottonpicken]

What is the number of dollars the us government
dumped into the farm economy over the past
generation.

Why are land values in iowa off the map?

Where did the money come from?

Cause and effect

Blowback

logic

reasoning

[riders2010]

You better keep an eye out for that parsley farmaholic, she is chem free, subsidy free, a freelance writer, just maybe the sex would be priceless also!
lol!

[parsley]

Btw, I have personal friends, first hand, who
receive over a million dollars from Stability. I
don't resent them. I'm not jealous of them.

But nor domi think Canada can afford to
subsidize any industry, because world economics
are too precarious and they became that way b/c
of the lack of self-disciple expected to be freely
practiced by each of us iliving in a free society

Do we, as Canadians, actually possess the
mental and social ability, let alone exercise the
expectancy responsibility, to maintain a free and
democratic nation?

That is the mother question of all questions.

We can only answer that question by looking
within. Pars

[farmaholic]

Riders: I realize I am likely out of my league here but what the heck I have an opinion. Debate is good.
Life is too short to take seriously, no one gets out alive!