• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Production vs Marketing

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Hopperbin . . . some growers started
    placing March Chicago wheat put option
    bear spreads last fall. Some placed a
    $7.50 to $6.50 spread on, some did a $7
    to $6 bear spread and so on. But these
    spreads have since expired but provided
    gains from a drop in the market through
    winter. Positions allowed growers 3 to 4
    months of downward price protection.
    Some have now positioned themselves with
    July to October bear spreads for further
    protection. The problem with wheat
    spreads is they can be expensive and
    economically a grower can only go out 3
    or 4 months affordably. This is a
    problem with wheat. Corn is more
    flexible and less expensive. Growers can
    protect themselves up to a year ahead in
    corn for reasonable money.

    For the growers that stuck to a
    disciplined marketing plan with wheat,
    it has been beneficial as higher fall
    prices have been guarded.

    But like cottonpicken stated, the wheat
    market looks like its bottoming right
    now. A grower with bear spreads might
    decide to jump ship. But from a farm
    management point of view, it may be good
    to hold this protection as India is now
    exporting and the Americans appear to
    have a solid start to their winter
    wheat crop.

    Some growers have just shorted the
    futures ion Minneapolis and Chicago, but
    you have to be able to stomach margin
    calls from your broker. It's just a fact
    of life in the hedging world.

    Hope this helps . . . .
    Errol

    Comment


      #32
      Can you please define bear spread?

      Comment


        #33
        Hopper . . . a put option bear spread is
        when a put option is purchased and a put
        option is sold as a spread to protect a
        drop in price. You can also do a call
        option bull spread ( buy a call and sell
        a call) to create an upward window.

        Here's example of call option bull
        spread that some growers used to replace
        feed barley/feed wheat sales.

        Example: sell cash barley at $4.50/bu
        farmgate. But want to take advantage of
        a weather related rally should it occur
        through summer. Some growers have
        purchased a Dec corn $6 to $7/call bull
        spread (bought the $6 call and sold the
        $7 call). Lets say a Dec corn $6 call is
        worth 60 cents/bu and a $7 call is worth
        30 cents/bu. A grower wanting a $1/bu
        upward window would pay 30 cents/bu in
        this example. (60 cent $6 call - 30 cent
        $7 call. Remember if you sell a call,
        this premium is credited to your
        account. The bottomline is; grower is
        risking 30 cents/bu to potentially make
        $1/bu, should December corn expire above
        $7/bu. But lets say, corn drops, the 30
        cent bull spread will expire worthless.
        Why do growers use this type of
        strategy? 1. no risk of margin call. 2.
        Option spreads are less expensive than
        just purchasing an at-the-money call or
        put option. What are the disadvantages?
        Corn example . . . lets say corn blows
        to $8/bu. Your 30 cent premium maxes out
        at $7/bu for max trade value of $1/bu.
        You would not gain any more than the
        $1/bu - 30 cent premium = 70 cents/bu
        total gain, even though corn blew to
        $8/bu.

        Lets look at wheat . . . rule of thumb,
        an at-the-money Chicago wheat put option
        4 months forward from now is worth about
        70 cents/bu. (At home, don't see actual
        quotes, so making example up) . . .Buy a
        July Wheat $6.50 put and sell a July
        wheat $5.80 put . . . for a difference
        of 25 cents/bu. In this example, grower
        risks 25 cents/bu to guard 70 cent/bu of
        market downside. You can build whatever
        spread window you want, depending on how
        much money you want to place at risk.

        Now the question begs . . . why not just
        buy a put or a call option. Forget about
        these silly spreads. Answer:The spreads
        give you a better starting point for
        less money. For wheat, buying an at the
        money wheat put option 6 months out
        costs an arm 'n a leg. And if you cut
        your premium (purchase out-of-the-money
        put), your price protection and option
        quality drops significantly. That's why
        option spreads make more sense for wheat
        (in my opinion).

        My apologies for a windy response. A
        beer, chalk board and grump about the
        Oilers and Flames would be easier than
        trying to describe on-line.

        My feeling is; understanding these
        strategies is just another tool for your
        marketing toolbox, whether you ever use
        these strategies or not in your farm
        marketing plan.

        Hopper, I tried . . .

        Errol

        Comment


          #34
          But Errol, while for every good decision
          there is a bad one. Like Vegas, when
          someone comes back, they always won.

          Anyone compare cash selling to doing
          market gymnastics after all the brokers,
          gains and losses from all the decisions
          over an extended period, ie at least 5
          years?

          Comment


            #35
            wd9 - you are right, there are years
            when you can place your hands in your
            pocket and come out smelling like a rose
            marketing-wise. This is one of those
            years for canola and feed grains, but
            certainly not wheat. No marketing has
            cost wheat growers big-time.

            Marketing is definately a art, rather
            than a science and everyone's marketing
            program and tolerance is different. We
            each have different risk tolerances for
            our operations.

            Because of so many variables, it would
            be very difficult to do a clear cut
            study on the effectiveness of marketing
            as it is different for everyone. My view
            is you have to feel comfortable in you
            own skin. If you don't want to forward
            price, use a broker broker etc, don't.
            And you may do fine some years. But in
            my opinion, marketing is at least 30% of
            your profitiablity, maybe higher.

            I have seen cattle feeders make money on
            a pen only because they owned protective
            put options. The feeding side was a
            wreck.

            My view; don't let your marketing guard
            down. If everyone would market with a
            plan, there may be a lot less need for
            government subsidies. You won't sell at
            the top of any market without luck, but
            you will make profit on every truckload
            of grain.

            Errol

            Comment


              #36
              Errol,

              On the wheat... think again.

              Grade is a problem... ergot, frost...

              Basis killed great futures lockins.

              Lock in the first 1/3 after seeding if Act of God; is safe... otherwise big risk on drought...

              It is all a big average in the end... I don't know anyone who sells everything the same day.

              Cheers!

              Comment


                #37
                Errol, i would agree, sort of. Again,
                after allthe averages are calculated out
                and the difference after a few years, all
                i'm saying is it worth the bother and the
                headache because this thread poses that
                very question, prod vs marketing.

                Comment

                • Reply to this Thread
                • Return to Topic List
                Working...