Whats your view on organic ag in western canada?

[bobofthenorth]

That's a good point Charlie. Nobody should be surprised when Pharma develops solutions that involve expensive technology that they just happen to be able to provide. If society truly wants different solutions then we will have to develop different funding models because there's nothing in it for Pharma to do the heavy lifting without the potential payoff.

[grassfarmer]

I don't know if any of you folks are familiar with what
Gabe Brown is doing in North Dakota. I'm just
fascinated by the results he is getting. I've posted a
link to one article about him but there are many - just
google him.

http://www.onearth.org/blog/regenerating-
landscapes-for-a-sustainable-future

Here is an important extract from the one article that
should spike some interest:
"The living biology in our soil has increased to the
point that we no longer use synthetic fertilizer. This
soil biology provides the plants with the nutrients
they need. We do not use any fungicides or
pesticides. A healthy ecosystem thrives on its own.
Skeptics say we cannot feed the world with this return
to natural based farming and ranching on large
scales. That is simply not true. Our average corn yield
is over 20% higher than the county average and we’ve
seen strong net profits consistently for many years."

[jamesb]

I believe there is always going to be a place for oragncic production because there is always going to be a segment of the population that demands organic products. That being said I have seen so many people profess a wish for organics but will buy only if organics are priced compariably to convention production. To me this reality puts organics in a very tough posistion as organic producers must receive more per bushel than conventional producers to be profitable.
As a response to Grass Farmers post, we do have a number of very successfull organic producers that are doing inovative things. This bears watching and as a conventional producer if I can see things that can reduce costs on my farm I will be interested to adopt them. Like most farmers we are always looking over the fence to see if there is a better way.
That being said, so many farmers started organic because they couldnt afford chemicals any more and are not able to follow the recommended practices of successfull organic production, IE no N fixing cover crops, very dirty summer fallow, no plan to replace phosphorus removed, soil erosion

[bobofthenorth]

The "organic" movement has relied on media hysteria and random marketing efforts to sustain the notion that their production is worth more than conventionally produced food. The reality is that low yield production has a lower real value than conventionally produced food (think scabby fruit, low protein wheat, older animals) The only way the perception of higher value can be maintained is with sustained marketing to reinforce the misconception that high yield agriculture is somehow harmful. As the public increasingly realizes that "organic" just means "expensive" without any compensating increase in value I expect we will see less of it, not more. The consumer is very rightly demanding value and "organic" doesn't deliver any increased value for the increased price.

[grassfarmer]

I bet Monsanto and all the other input pimps just rub
their hands when they see you coming bobofthe
north.
What about Gabe Brown that produces corn yields
20% above county average without fertilizer or
chemicals?

[hedgehog]

if a consumer is willing to buy a rolls royce, at a big price, because he believes it is better than average, it is a farmers duty to supply it.
dont try and flog him a toyota because it is better value.

[checking]

Grassfarmer.

Is that new information on the Brown ranch because the last update 5/29/12 states the Gabe Brown ranch practices Holistic Management?

Quote "this has allowed us to reduce the use of commercial fertilizer by over 90% and the use of herbicides by over 75%" unquote.

I sure hope you know whether your wife is pregnant, and not just a little bit pregnant.

[grassfarmer]

There are various articles on Gabe Brown over the
years citing different quantities of fertilizer/sprays
used - one claimed he only used spray on the corn. I
don't know the guy personally so don't know what is
accurate and what is misreporting. I don't think I've
ever read he markets his produce as organic per se
and I wasn't highlighting him with that end in mind. I
was more interested in the general production system
he uses and wonder how much of that could be
reproduced in western Canada. Imagine a successful
no-till system that produces yields even to equal
those of conventional farming with a reduction of 90%
in fertilizer and 75% in chemical use. You would be
miles ahead without looking for an organic premium.
Surely that interests some conventional farmers?

[bobofthenorth]

I'm not really interested in debating what this Brown character is or isn't doing. The science is well founded and has been known for a long time. He can fix nitrogen with green manure but there's no shortcut to cation nutrition (P & K). In the short term he can mine them for maybe 10 years depending on his initial status and never see any yield impact but there's no free lunch. I couldn't tell from the article whether he was importing feed - if so he would be adding some P & K from the manure.

BTW, I don't believe in the tooth fairy or santa claus either.