Adler vs Supply Management

[grassfarmer]

I don't suppose it does matter ultimately how the
money comes through for the product whether it be
directly through the price a consumer pays (SM) or
through consumer paid price plus consumer funded
aid packages to maintain farmers (beef, hogs, grain)
But lets drop the lie that this has anything to do with
"free markets" and that those of us in the beef, hog
and grain sectors are unsubsidized and somehow
superior while the people in SM are subsidy junkies.
This is a complete reversal of the truth.
SM works because there are regulations in place to
ensure processors pay a fair price for their raw
material. Lack of excessive profits in the processing
sector are what ensures adequate returns to dairy
producers. SM returns all come from the market and
it's a system that obviously works.

[ColevilleH2S]

The dairy system as we know it in Canada is going
to hit a very hard wall if interest rates take-off.
Imaging how you will finance your 2,000,000 quota
fee with FCC when rates are in the double digits
again. Young producers are getting a F-job from the
establishment and bankers are reaping the rewards.

[grassfarmer]

I don't see why they would be hit particularly hard
with an interest rate hike - remember they are in a
highly, and consistently profitable sector. It's
generally accepted that you can buy and pay off milk
quota in around 7 years.
Contrast that to beef, hog and grain operators.
Feedlot cattle have averaged a net loss of around
$6/head over a 30 period, how much have hog
operations averaged over the same period? With the
machinery and other input costs associated with
modern grain farming as well as greatly increased
land costs how many of you are looking forward to
double digit interest rates? Especially given the risk
you are taking - not getting a crop seeded, getting
hailed out, having a poor crop due to too wet, too
dry, early frost etc and having no control over the
prices received.
None of these things affect the dairy (egg or chicken)
farmer - supply management is a good system don't
throw it out to appease our trade competitors.

[Fransisco]

The system "works" in the same way as robbing banks "works" for thieves.

And it is the biggest subsidy scheme we have going. Anyone who doesn't recognize that has been sleeping with a bag of furadan under their pillow.

I can understand why those who are in it don't want things to change its a really nice gravy train for them. But there's nothing in it for anyone else, consumers and other farmers get the short end of the stick. Its a classic win lose scenario.

[bgmb]

I am not fond of supply mgmt but beware the next
thing adler will be after is agristability and crop
ins. Subsidies. Public pays for them as well.

[perfecho]

The oil sands have been subsidized....natural gas have been subsidized....corporate meat packers have been subsidized....the US dairy system has been and will be heavily subsidized......so let’s throw out our system that the sell price actually has something to do with the costs.
I agree changes could be made, however, don’t be jealous just because someone has figured out how to make money in the food system.....you would rather pay incompetent CEO major bonuses for screwing the system....hell even they are subsidized.

[ASRG]

National News: Secret Trans-Pacific Trade Talks Are Good News for Harper’s Corporate Supporters
Contributed by admin on Jul 12, 2012 - 10:07 PM



OTTAWA – The thirteenth round of Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreement (TPP) negotiations concluded in San Diego yesterday after the White House formally informed Congress that Canada would be joining future talks. However, Canadians are unlikely to know the important details of what happens behind closed doors.

“From the few details emerging, the TPP – a highly secretive pact initiated by the George W. Bush administration – grants special privileges to already powerful corporations,” commented Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, MP Saanich-Gulf Islands. “It has been dubbed ‘NAFTA on steroids.’ Some are even calling it a ‘corporate coup.’ This is not what Canadians want or need.”

Mainly based on leaks, it appears that the talks, which have included the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, and the Sultanate of Brunei, are focussed on ensuring new enforceable corporate rights along with increased constraints on governments. Only two of TPP’s 26 chapters actually have anything to do with trade.

What is emerging is a pact promoting extensions on price-raising drug patent monopolies, increased corporate rights to attack government drug-pricing plans, safeguards for job off-shoring, and added corporate control over natural resources. This is particularly interesting in light of Bill C-38’s destruction of government influence over resource extraction.

There also appear to be severe limits to government regulation of financial services, zoning and land use, product and food safety, energy, and other essential services. The copyright chapter poses several threats to internet freedom along the lines of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), which was held up in the US Congress after effective public pressure.

The proposed pact will even limit the way governments can spend their tax dollars. Buy local procurement policies would be banned and human rights or environmental conditions on government contracts could be challenged in behind-closed-door foreign tribunals. There are proposed rules regarding the activities of publicly owned enterprises.

A recent leak of a particularly controversial TPP chapter revealed that the agreement will raise corporations and investors to the same status as sovereign nations. The so-called “investor state” provisions would give any foreign companies incorporated in TPP countries the right to ignore our courts and laws and sue our government directly by way of foreign tribunals. Businesses would be able to demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use, and other laws they think undermine their TPP privileges.

Already, in San Diego, we saw the CEO of Australian Pork Limited going after Canadian federal and provincial pork supports, even though Canada's share of the world pork market has fallen because of the strong Canadian petro-dollar and high feed costs.

“The TPP negotiations were yet another disturbing example of the larger pattern of unaccountable, secretive, and undemocratic practices by the Harper government,” said May. “This pattern, once again, shows a real contempt for Canadians and for our democracy.”

The Green Party is determined to bring more TPP information to light before the 14th round of secret talks in early September in Leesburg, Virginia.

Print

Footnote: Written by: Green Party of Canada

[Fransisco]

Yes there are all sorts of things getting subsidies. Some are big, supply management, some are small i.e. crop insurance. None of them are right but there are few out there as obnoxious as what is going to dairy right now.

According to the OECD 50% of a Canadian dairy farmers income is because of the supply management subsidy. Which is in a whole other league from something like agristability that will only help you out in the odd really, really bad year.

How many dairy guys are saying, "I'm not worried about losing supply management, I've got agri-stability to keep me going."? None. To a dairy man agristability is a joke its like comparing a dime to a dollar.

[grassfarmer]

Subsidy - definition - "A sum of money granted by
the government or a public body to assist an industry
or business so that the price of a commodity or
service may remain low or competitive"

Clearly the SM system can in no way be deemed a
subsidy - it's exactly the opposite. No money is paid
by the Government or any other public body and the
objective is not to keep the price of the product low
or competitive.
Supply Management is not a subsidy it's consumers
paying the cost of production for their purchase.
Agristability and all the other ad-hoc payments
necessitated by the "free market" system are the
subsidies.

[wd9]

Only in Canada without first buying a
completely ridiculously and unrelated
priced entry fee is it illegal to buy a
milk cow and sell the milk. Buy a
chicken and sell the eggs or butcher
that chicken and sell the meat. Buy a
turkey, raise it and sell the meat.

Just like the Western Canadian Wheat
Board's immoral, unfair, outdated
strangle hold of western Cdn farmers,
SM5's days are numbered.

Members of SM5 need to realize the shift
in both public and political support of
this cartel and the small number of
people it actually represents. There no
longer is enough votes for SM5 to
matter, additionally the ever
increasingly large vocal group pissed
off about getting screwed on the price
of these products.

Its politics 101, it isn't about money
or stability or rights, its about who
has the ear of the politicians.

Wake up SM5, you're losing this one thru
your arrogance and like the mafia of
old, you think you're untouchable.

You're not. Like the CWB, you're a
simple Bill majority vote away from
extinction thru majority public
pressure.

[rockpile]

There has been considerable discussion the past
few months on why just about everything costs
more in Canada than the USA by up to 30% in some
cases. So without an opinion on SM I would suggest
the price of raw milk is not the only component to
the overall cost. What are the comparative costs of
processing, distribution, wholesale and retail mark-
up? Would eliminating SM have a significant impact
on prices in Canada or would the rest of the chain
just absorb the incremental margin gains if there
are any? Until I see all of the comparative numbers
there is no point in just hacking away at SM
producers.

[Fransisco]

If you force taxpayers to hand out money to people its a subsidy.

If you force consumers to pay higher prices than they otherwise would through the use of tariffs that too is a subsidy.

And here's a newsflash the consumer and taxpayer, for the most part, are the same person. And it doesn't particularly matter to that person if he's getting screwed from tax's or at grocery store till. He's still getting screwed.