Adler vs Supply Management

[ASRG]

National News: Secret Trans-Pacific Trade Talks Are Good News for Harper’s Corporate Supporters
Contributed by admin on Jul 12, 2012 - 10:07 PM



OTTAWA – The thirteenth round of Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreement (TPP) negotiations concluded in San Diego yesterday after the White House formally informed Congress that Canada would be joining future talks. However, Canadians are unlikely to know the important details of what happens behind closed doors.

“From the few details emerging, the TPP – a highly secretive pact initiated by the George W. Bush administration – grants special privileges to already powerful corporations,” commented Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, MP Saanich-Gulf Islands. “It has been dubbed ‘NAFTA on steroids.’ Some are even calling it a ‘corporate coup.’ This is not what Canadians want or need.”

Mainly based on leaks, it appears that the talks, which have included the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, and the Sultanate of Brunei, are focussed on ensuring new enforceable corporate rights along with increased constraints on governments. Only two of TPP’s 26 chapters actually have anything to do with trade.

What is emerging is a pact promoting extensions on price-raising drug patent monopolies, increased corporate rights to attack government drug-pricing plans, safeguards for job off-shoring, and added corporate control over natural resources. This is particularly interesting in light of Bill C-38’s destruction of government influence over resource extraction.

There also appear to be severe limits to government regulation of financial services, zoning and land use, product and food safety, energy, and other essential services. The copyright chapter poses several threats to internet freedom along the lines of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), which was held up in the US Congress after effective public pressure.

The proposed pact will even limit the way governments can spend their tax dollars. Buy local procurement policies would be banned and human rights or environmental conditions on government contracts could be challenged in behind-closed-door foreign tribunals. There are proposed rules regarding the activities of publicly owned enterprises.

A recent leak of a particularly controversial TPP chapter revealed that the agreement will raise corporations and investors to the same status as sovereign nations. The so-called “investor state” provisions would give any foreign companies incorporated in TPP countries the right to ignore our courts and laws and sue our government directly by way of foreign tribunals. Businesses would be able to demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use, and other laws they think undermine their TPP privileges.

Already, in San Diego, we saw the CEO of Australian Pork Limited going after Canadian federal and provincial pork supports, even though Canada's share of the world pork market has fallen because of the strong Canadian petro-dollar and high feed costs.

“The TPP negotiations were yet another disturbing example of the larger pattern of unaccountable, secretive, and undemocratic practices by the Harper government,” said May. “This pattern, once again, shows a real contempt for Canadians and for our democracy.”

The Green Party is determined to bring more TPP information to light before the 14th round of secret talks in early September in Leesburg, Virginia.

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Footnote: Written by: Green Party of Canada

[Fransisco]

Yes there are all sorts of things getting subsidies. Some are big, supply management, some are small i.e. crop insurance. None of them are right but there are few out there as obnoxious as what is going to dairy right now.

According to the OECD 50% of a Canadian dairy farmers income is because of the supply management subsidy. Which is in a whole other league from something like agristability that will only help you out in the odd really, really bad year.

How many dairy guys are saying, "I'm not worried about losing supply management, I've got agri-stability to keep me going."? None. To a dairy man agristability is a joke its like comparing a dime to a dollar.

[grassfarmer]

Subsidy - definition - "A sum of money granted by
the government or a public body to assist an industry
or business so that the price of a commodity or
service may remain low or competitive"

Clearly the SM system can in no way be deemed a
subsidy - it's exactly the opposite. No money is paid
by the Government or any other public body and the
objective is not to keep the price of the product low
or competitive.
Supply Management is not a subsidy it's consumers
paying the cost of production for their purchase.
Agristability and all the other ad-hoc payments
necessitated by the "free market" system are the
subsidies.

[wd9]

Only in Canada without first buying a
completely ridiculously and unrelated
priced entry fee is it illegal to buy a
milk cow and sell the milk. Buy a
chicken and sell the eggs or butcher
that chicken and sell the meat. Buy a
turkey, raise it and sell the meat.

Just like the Western Canadian Wheat
Board's immoral, unfair, outdated
strangle hold of western Cdn farmers,
SM5's days are numbered.

Members of SM5 need to realize the shift
in both public and political support of
this cartel and the small number of
people it actually represents. There no
longer is enough votes for SM5 to
matter, additionally the ever
increasingly large vocal group pissed
off about getting screwed on the price
of these products.

Its politics 101, it isn't about money
or stability or rights, its about who
has the ear of the politicians.

Wake up SM5, you're losing this one thru
your arrogance and like the mafia of
old, you think you're untouchable.

You're not. Like the CWB, you're a
simple Bill majority vote away from
extinction thru majority public
pressure.

[rockpile]

There has been considerable discussion the past
few months on why just about everything costs
more in Canada than the USA by up to 30% in some
cases. So without an opinion on SM I would suggest
the price of raw milk is not the only component to
the overall cost. What are the comparative costs of
processing, distribution, wholesale and retail mark-
up? Would eliminating SM have a significant impact
on prices in Canada or would the rest of the chain
just absorb the incremental margin gains if there
are any? Until I see all of the comparative numbers
there is no point in just hacking away at SM
producers.

[Fransisco]

If you force taxpayers to hand out money to people its a subsidy.

If you force consumers to pay higher prices than they otherwise would through the use of tariffs that too is a subsidy.

And here's a newsflash the consumer and taxpayer, for the most part, are the same person. And it doesn't particularly matter to that person if he's getting screwed from tax's or at grocery store till. He's still getting screwed.

[BFW]

Clearly there is no direct subsidization of the dairy industry at least in the terms that most people think of subsidies. The only thing that allows the supply management system in Canada to exist is the legislation that exists effectively preventing imports and therefore any competition in the marketplace. Remove the tariffs on imports and it's all over. Reality bites.

[Fransisco]

I think a lot of people don't have a problem with the government helping people out for a short time if there is some kind of disaster. And thats how programs like crop insurance and agri-stability work.

SM on the other hand is a permanent, full time hand out which makes a few people rich at the expense of everyone else. It is a true dog eat dog system.

[grassfarmer]

Wrong franny, try reading the definition of subsidy
again - that's not my definition by the way it's the
dictionary definition.
Rockpile you raise a good point. Guess where the
retail milk price of milk is even higher than Canada -
that's right New Zealand!! How can that be? Retail and
processor profiteering is the answer. There is no
indication CDN retail milk prices would decrease if SM
was abolished. It would just go straight into the
pockets of Saputo etc, just the same as the Cargills
and Nilssons in the beef world.
This is what franny and co want - deregulated race to
the bottom under the pretence of "free market". You
want to talk about price fixing, cartels and the
consumer getting a bad deal just look at the
electricity sector in Alberta.

[Fransisco]

No grassie it is you who are wrong. The folks around the world who measure subsidies like the OECD and the WTO count these tariff systems just like any other subsidy.

Its always amazing how those in love with government programs will twist themselves into pretzels jumping away from the facts.

[Fransisco]

And Grassie you sound just like the chicken littles who said there is no way that canadian wheat farmers would ever get paid the same price as a US farmer in an open market. Well here we are today getting the same or better.

You take down that SM tariff wall and consumers will benefit big time.

[Burbert]

Maybe the Comedian Gobermont'll take over
milk and egg marketin to. Ritz knows
ostriches, theys like chickins soos why
not? Giver all to the merickins, F&*k
Comedian angribusiness!

[hedgehog]

supply management worked in the uk, dairy farmers made a reasonable living and milk was still cheap.
ever since quotas were scrapped, farmers have had a hiding, half have quit, and milk is no cheaPER.
but the middlemen are coining it.

[ASRG]

With the TTP milk, cheese, butter, eggs, poultry, etc. will come from where ever the corporations can source it the cheapest.....and that sure won't be Canada!
It won't be any cheaper. It will be whatever the market will bear.
All our dairy and poultry farmers will be growing grain. All our processing plants will be shutting down and moving the equipment to Vietnam.
As a little side note, get ready to pay a lot more for any medication you might need!
The corporations are about to screw you big time.

[grassfarmer]

You never actually had supply management in the UK
hedgehog, merely production quotas to control
production with no price setting of the end product.
That was a severely watered down version of the SM
system we have here. The strength of it was the milk
marketing boards which acted in exactly the same
manner as the CWB marketing farmers grains
collectively. And you are right - it worked great and
how they wish they had the boards back again.
A little bit of premature crowing here by the grain
guys about how smart they are with no CWB rather
reminds me of the early guys that signed contracts
with Wiseman on milk in Scotland....just give it a little
while to get an education in the deregulated
marketplace.