Barack Hussein Obama and his MF Global web

[riders2010]

Was the cwb really eliminated so that the Chineese could come here buy land and then ship the wheat back home? In exchange for us selling them oil? Apparently this happenning in Quebec already where farms are bought hogs, cattle etc being produced and shipped directly back to China, no income tax paid just using our resources our land and killing our market for the rest of us?

[parsley]

You well understand, hobby, the rotten-spot in
the government single desk marketing agency
That one buyback document stopped sales,
curbed expansion, promoted favoritism, promoted
corruption, allowed the east to grab markets from
the west, promoted regulatory inequity amongst
Canadian citizens, rested power in roehled-
hands, and provided employees and politicians
a sense of power over, instead of service to,
farmers.

The rotten spot of compulsion is gone. The CWB
has not been rendered helpless in fact, taking
away the monopoly aspect will make it strong. It
will have to earn your business. Provide good
service. Gind markets to help you sell your
fusarium wheat, instead of telling you to burn it,
in order to keep you trapped within border
confines.

Roehled-thinking will become a textbook example
of how not to treat farmers. Good info hobby.
We've done it for so long, we kinda forget others
haven't, don't we. Pars

[parsley]

Rocky, MF Global is a company that is managed
in the USA, but reaches into countries all over
the world, and mainly Europe. Commodities
includes oil, gas and gold. And derivative trading
was routine at MF. There are accounts in limbo.
Waiting. And MF's CEO, Corzine, declared
bankruptcy. AFTER he raided client accounts.
According to the rule of law, that is an absolute
no no. Rather like the Royal Bank's CEO,
raiding our savings account, and then declaring
bankruptcy.

The big question, Rocky, is this: If the Justice
Department in any G20 country won't prosecute
a crooked CEO of the institutions the public
invests in, nor will his PM/ order him to
prosecute, who in their right mind will trust any
institution with their money?

And capitalism is based upon trust, conditional
upon the law backing up your trust. The MF
Global fraud has the ability to completely destroy
trust in capitalism. And Obama knows it. Pars

[bduke]

Riders 2010 ...The CWB was started in 1935 to keep the Prairie Pools from
declaring bankruptcy. T

Their losses... resulting from guaranteeing a pooling system for farmers, in
a falling market... had them financially strapped.

The CWB became compulsory under the War Measures Act in 1943.

It set maximum prices on wheat, oats, barley, and flax.

These prices were "maximized" to keep the prices down during the war
which especially helped feed the Great Britain.

This War Measures compulsion should have been ended 1 minute after WWII.

Following WWII an International Wheat Agreement was established.

Within a few years the IWA had signees cheating, and eventually only 1
country honoured this agreement.

The CWB had control so it easily maintained the minimum prices of the IWA,
but sold very little wheat and barley.

Farm stocks built up.. farmers were destitute.

In 1969 Prairie farmers could haul a 300 bushel "unit" per permit book
beginning Aug 01 if an elevator had room, and eventually another 3 bushels
per acre... if the elevators had room... for the entire crop year!

Ergo, I would argue the CWB effectively ensured a most humble and hard up
Prairie farm community.

I would argue the CWB encouraged acres and acres of temperamental,
unsuitable for cultivation land to be broken because delivery was meagrely
based upon cultivated acres.

I truly believe the opportunity lost by CWB control for 67 years since WWII is
so great the number would be mind bending... if calculable.

interesting you mention Quebec which is the most supported farm
community in Canada.... and is consistently the greatest benefactor of
Equalization.

Regarding the Chinese purchasing... I am a supporter of quid pro quo.

Any jurisdictions which do not allow trading as we do, should not be allowed
to purchase in our jurisdiction.

However, the WTO should ensure its members are fast tracking to fair
marketing as a fundamental requirement.

Cheers... Bill

[riders2010]

Bill, I agree on the one hand that wheat should not be different than any other commodity we produce. On the other hand if we asked farmers as a whole and not just the extreme left or right whether or not in difficult price times would it not be in our interest to have a some marketing power, the answer would likely be yes. However the cwb did not provide this marketing power, it lost its way in rhetoric, politics, and idiology rather than effectiveness. From this point of view the cwb failed horribly more than the smaller picture shows, because now there is a greater stigma that working together just doesn't work for farmers when in fact that was not the way the cwb was working at all anyway.

We are all kinda giddy because of the world prices for all grains. The cwb gone or here did not cause world price of wheat to rise, no one buying is saying good no more wheat board so I'll pay more for wheat, and certainly no individual has said or can say pay this price or else. We do however have the benefit of no middleman fee and I can get my full dollar value at delivery when I decide and I am greatful for that.

But have we as farmers been played here? To some the wheat board was a major issue but is it a major issue in terms of the big picture of what else is occurring?

China india pakistan does not have enough land, food, or energy to sustain its current and vastly growing population.

We have land and energy resources. Was the main issue we should have been discussing the cwb or should it have been our entire plan for agriculture?
Should we Canadians by retaining ownership of the resources processing them and selling them ourselves to a practically starving region? Would we not be in the driver seat?

Instead we are selling off our land, our energy, our future for a mere pittance. Importing people so as to expedite the extraction of our resources so they (asia) can fuel and feed their huge populations cheaply in exchange for some jobs and we take all the environmental risk to boot?

Imho the wheat board was made a bigger issue than what it deserved. But at least now with it done the real ag policy will have to surface, and what is that policy? Chineese ownership of our land? where does that lead us 20 30 years from now? alot different direction than whether or not wheat was sold through the board or not.

[riders2010]

Does any one know how this works, when these asians buy our land and then send the grain, livestock, etc. back, is there no income counted therefore no tax paid? Do they buy the land, set up a company then use the make work(our tax dollar) programs we have to import more asians then that allows them to become citizens and have all the benefits of pensions health care etc. with no taxes paid?

sorry Pars this is sidetracking the topic will stop

[bduke]

Riders 2010... IMHO the CWB effect was underscored for years and years.

Singularly honouring the IWA which practically eliminated cash flow from
prairie grains, establishing ridiculously low initial prices year after year,
refusing no cost buy backs only to prairie farmers,ensuring feed grain
supplies for Canadian livestock, demanding kernel visibility distinguishability
resulting in lower yields, favouring maltsters at farmer's expense, basing
quotas on acreage for most of its controlling years, pre selling at prices
favourable to "good" customers, and matching the US pricing for lower US
quality wheat are some of the CWB's legacy.

The opportunity costs lost by this shameless Borg is... IMHO... the reason the
Chinese see a buying opportunity here rather than Europe or the US.

We have been oppressed which is verified in our deemed "good value".

Many of us will not sell to out of country interests... some will.

Hopefully we have a generation of farmers who see the growing opportunity
to produce food and will be aggressive enough to match or outbid the offers
from outside...especially China.

I also see many farmers renting their land and holding ownership to protect
their asset base and ensure some real value for their families.

I only wish I were in the early years of farming rather than the twilight years.

Mortgage rates in the early 80"s were from 17% to 20%..... now 5%.

While rising land values are discouraging to they hoping to expand at "safe'
prices, in the long run I think if higher prices deter interest from China to buy
in South Africa e.g.could be in our long term interest.

Not being compelled to sell through the CWB will allow a new generation of
farmers to manage, market, produce and invest at levels foreign to me.

How I wish this freedom had been honoured 1 minute after WWII.

Cheers... BIll

[wd9]

But see Rider, that's the big lie, the
CWB never had marketing power. Whether
it (CWB) existed or not, the potential
price remained the same. however between
fire saleing and mandated movement per
month and fixed and operating costs, and
the fact all the buyers knew the board
had to sell 1/12 of the crop per month,
we got screwed up the ass.

Good riddance CWB. Maybe reread Bills
post on the history and purpose of the
CWB. Very well summarized.

[bduke]

Riders2010... A correction re my last post... If higher land prices here encourage
the Chinese to buy in S Africa e.g. could be long term beneficial to our region.

I expect the ownership of Sask land requires a Sask presence... think it need
approval re: Sask Land Board.

So perhaps a Corp or owner with Sask residency.

Just thinking a non resident requirement could be a public co trading in Canada,
and then its share values would be reflected by its results..regulated reporting.

Low profits would allow it to be taken over... higher profits would require normal
marketing and more Cad taxation.

Critique please...

Cheers... Bill

[notaredneck]

Land aquisition in Canada is quite eazy. Just set up a Canadian/Sask co have canadians run the outfit,supply the $ to buy the land as a lender . Then set up a grain merchant entity (do not need canadian content in this.. hooray!), buy the grain from the lands(farms) that have produced the grain on these lands. The grain leaves the country,the $ generated do not come back to this country and are used to to purchase more equity in a food producing area(Canada or else where )
Yes of couse these lands,farms will be generating revenues etc,bying imputs and because of high admin cost will pay little or no inc.tax . Why? Because the mother Co. is ofshore ...and so it goes ! Free at last!

[riders2010]

Bill, I am not up to par on the land ownership laws here, but they must be different then what I had thought because the new fad is numbered companies through investment brokers. When you snoop around enough more than not foreign asian backing keeps coming up. The stats on this are misleading, because not sure when they consider an asian who becomes a canadian citizen then uses chineese gov money to buy land in their own name classified as foreign, at what point or length of citizenship? These people are working together for their own common good.

As far as land values I believe cottons statements we have not seen anything in terms of grain and resource prices. Therefore land is still EXTREMELEY cheap if we are talking in terms of these countries position of exploding populations with not enough food. If we are talking about a young canadian farmer trying to make ends meet then land price is way too high unless grain prices go about 30% higher than what they are even now. Therefore major problem for the future of ACTUAL CANADIANS to continue farming. I wanted free choice but at the same time they now have free access to ship their wheat home or not?

Those countries need us as much as or more than we need them. We have more than enough food and fuel they do not and getting less. Allowing them ownership and another kick in the ass using our gov programs to take our resources is worse than any effect the cwb ever had or would have had. The reason Canada is so attractive is because our gov is begging them in order to make oil deals while other countries are looking after their own citizens and giving them the boot in some cases. Would you agree that supplying that many people with cheap food and fuel, will result in them being the mega super power in 20 years? What will we be? All we hear now is that there are no skilled workers, well why would there be when we ship cheap food and oil over to asia and they apply that to their cheap wages and advance their tech jobs while we develop truck drivers and trench diggers?

Wd I agree the cwb was a pain in the ass but so is the fact that when we had wipeouts here no money through programs yet farmers with the bumper crops and one little loss getting big cheques, then come bidding up our land rents with gov money. More of an ass itch than extra strength prep H could cure.

[ASRG]

200 hundred years ago the "real Canadians", in the west, were Cree, Blackfoot etc.? Today "real Canadians" are English, German, Ukrainian, etc.?
50 years from now "real Canadians" are Chinese, Sikh, Phillipinos?
Things change.