Grass Vs. Grain Fed Beef Discussion Turns Ugly

[grassfarmer]

Newguy, those are common perceptions of grassfed
that I would disagree with because we have proven
them wrong. We have cattle that marble superbly off
grass - the answer lies in the genetics. We also get a
good firm, white fat cover on the cattle because we
know how to grow high energy grass in the month
of September - one of this area's natural advantages
for grass fattening cattle. Getting these two
components right is not easy for many in a country
with little recent history of grass fattening cattle but
they are not rocket science for those of us that grew
up with a tradition of grass fattening.

You say "Even corn fed is not as good as Canadian
barley fed beef." Says who? the cattle fattener in
Nebraska? the US consumer? There is no "best" - it's
all about consumer preference and opinion.

Last time I checked consumers didn't need to pass a
test on agriculture, animal husbandry or safe food
production before they could buy beef JD. Funny
thing is though the urbanites that you so despise
that are looking for an alternate product generally
are better informed on agriculture, animal
husbandry and safe food than those urbanites that
blindly buy their meat at Walmart or McDonalds. If
you don't want to supply urbanites with beef at all I
would suggest we'll need another herd reduction as
they make up over 80% of the population province
and country wide.

[checking]

I have a problem with, and I think most higher paying consummers of a beef product would as well if they knew their raiser/grower was advocating using lower quality land to grow them their tastier beef.

Would you not want them to know that you were using the best quality land available, vegetables and grain be damned? Otherwise, it's hoodwinking, and someone is correct about the smarts of your clients.

[JDGreen]

Thats funny grassie. I don't depsie urbanites, but I have many family member and friends living in the big city that fit your customer base. Although they think they are alternative, they are beyond ignorant. Ok legitimate question grassie.. How many acres of grassland are there that could produce grass fed beef in Canada? How many acres of this could be used for beef finishing vs. cow/calf operations to supply the finishing and stock replacement? How many head per acre on average could be used for this purpose. Is it even possible to supply all the beef demand with this model?? Or are we just assuming that all beef should be grass fed until we realize there isn't enough grassland to do so?? Would marginal grainland have to come out of production and be seeded back to grass to support this model? What genetics (specifically breed) are you achieving these spectacular results with? What particular forage/grass varieties are you using?

[perfecho]

Well the Topic Line certainly plays out. Each to there own, some breeds finish on grain better, some on grass better....nice to know there is a choice!

[sumdumguy]

Would these be Black Angus cattle? Great Work!
This kind of success does not come without a
great deal of patience, hard work and
perserverqnce. And the best use of marginal land
- for sure. I'm sure if you could ask a cow what
kind of life she would prefer, she would pick the
wide open meadows over the overcrowded
feedlot any day. This likely has a lot to do with
your success. I too would pick your beef.

Good for you! Thanx for sharing.

[ASRG]

To each their own. Personally I prefer grassfed beef.
North Americans might be better off eating a lot less meat? Maybe we need a lot fewer cows? Demographics and changing eating habits are heading us in that direction?
Eventually the cost price squeeze will make beef a luxury item.

[newguy]

Corn fed cattle vs barley fed is common
knowledge the taste differance. If you
marble your cattle on high energy grass
that land could probably grow barley or
grain as well. Also the genetics you use
may be british cattle like welsh black
or wagu. So in fact like alot of organic
grain farmers you are losing maximum
production to obtain a product for a
niche market. Good for you for suppling
a product . What type of grass produces
a fat as white as barley? Do you finish
your cattle on standing barley?

[grassfarmer]

On land quality/use: the best land for growing grass
to fatten cattle is the marginal grain land on the
fringes. Typically the areas people on here complain
about being tough too wet, too cold, too short season
to grow crops easily. You just have to get your head
around growing grain not being the best use of land
if the grain produced is going to feed cattle - it can't
just compete on cost. The feed only component of
our cost of gain is under 35c/lb of gain - which will
be less than 1/2 maybe closer to a 1/3 of the cost of
feedlot gains. Of course ours is a seasonal business
and for that reason will never comprise the majority
of the countries beef production. Still leaves plenty
room for expansion of the sector to meet the growing
demand from consumers.

On grasses: Preferred grasses for getting a fall finish
on cattle here are meadow brome, orchard grass and
lots of legume - alsike clover and cider milk vetch are
my favourites. These species all retain their quality
late into the fall. The beauty of this climate, although
few seemingly realise it, is that the light, early frosts
that come in September have the effect of
concentrating the sugar above ground in grasses like
Meadow Brome and Orchard grass which gives you
the energy you need to get a proper finish on cattle.
You need to manage grass though - if it's under an
inch high and brown by the first of August you are
not going to finish cattle on it.

On genetics: We use Luing cattle because they were
designed for the purpose - maternal cattle that the
byproduct steers fatten off grass at 18 months. This
breed is prepotent for these characteristics.
In most breeds the name means nothing - "Angus"
contains everything from charolais types to holstein
types as they have chased every popularity fad in the
book. Like almost every other breed in North America
the Angus has been selected for gain in the feedlot
environment for so long they have evolved away from
their grass finished roots. There are good Angus out
there for sure but not available with any consistency.
We run some commercial Red Angus cows which
mated to our Luing bulls produce a very good
carcass. The Red Angus calves that came inside them
when I bought them were very inconsistent to fatten
on grass - from the smallest carcass I've ever
processed to some that had to be shipped as feeders
at slaughter weight with not enough finish on them to
kill. They wanted to be 1600lb fat cattle. Marbling
and tenderness of these straight Reds was the
poorest I've ever produced.

[ASRG]

I wonder if the "urbanites" who want to buy organic, or non-GMO, or milk and cheese without bovine growth hormone, would be considered as ignorant, naive, uninformed consumers?
It seems to me if it is their dollar, they can spend it however they see fit?

Or all all these organic/natural farmers decieving these poor vulnerable souls?

Maybe the government should force all consumers to eat the factory food at Walmart? Maybe they could also outlaw private gardens unless the gardeners use hybrid GMO seeds, chemical fertilizers, and every spray under the sun?

[perfecho]

Careful ASRG......I beleive Walmart is growing to be the largest organic retailer in North America....or at least thats their mandate .......goodbye to margins in organic!

[tweaker101]

I prefer grass feed beef as do our customers, but again each to there own opinion. I think our customers would be not impressed if they seen us feeding a corral full of steers bucket after bucket of barley and wallowing around in the mud and shit from a corral and being penned up as to seeing them out on the pastures with the grass blowing in the wind around them. Our pastures are not on mariginal land as where we are situated there is none...but if I had any poor land it would be fenced off and used for pasture.

[riders2010]

Grassfarmer do you grow and market your animals based only on your costs and the quality of taste as you see it or do you market at all on the anti cancer properties of grass fed compared to grain? Curious do consumers care about the health side at all or is it all about taste? Not even sure if it is true that grass fed only is healthier maybe your and other input on this could shed some light.

We buy from the neighbor grain finished but nothing that has had to treated with antibiotics. Great stuff but was always curious about the health part of it compared to grass only.