I Beg Your Pardon...

[FarmRanger]

The CWB has marketing contacts all over the world. Now with their reduced volumes, they can "cherry pick" all those premium markets that they didn't want individual farmers to be able to access.

If they can't compete, in fact if they don't flourish, the only possible reason will be that the "premium marketer" label the CWB gave itself was just a self preservation myth designed to deceive captive farmers.

[jdepape]

Is it just me or do the single desk supporters
seem to contradict themselves? Perhaps not
directly, but implicitly.

Those that vilify the border runners are also the
ones that support the left-leaning Council of
Canadians, an organization that embraces the
following (taken from their website):

"The Council of Canadians fights for economic
and social justice."

"The Council of Canadians believes in peaceful
protest and non-violent civil disobedience. "

The definition of civil disobedience is:

"Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal
to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of
a government"

"Non-revolutionary civil disobedience is a simple
disobedience of laws on the grounds that they are
judged "wrong" by an individual conscience, or as
part of an effort to render certain laws ineffective,
to cause their repeal, or to exert pressure to get
one's political wishes on some other issue."

Based on these statements, the C of C should
support the jailed farmers yet there is no evidence
they ever did. They did, however support the
efforts of the "crazy eight" CWB directors to fight
the government in court over Bill C-18.

It's their view of the CWB as a social instrument
that colors their view of those that support an
open market. And unfortunately, their view of the
CWB is blinded by their ideological view of
anything "collective". This has always kept them -
and others that support the single desk - from
assessing the single desk objectively. "If it's
collective, it must be good."

Although I can't draw a direct connection between
Laura Rance and the C of C, they clearly are of
like minds. They both believe anything about the
CWB and single desk is good and worth fighting
for and anything working against the single desk
is evil.

Laura is quick to point to all the "tactics" of the
Harper government as evil, yet never once
criticized the likes of Ralph Goodale or Pat Martin
for their "tactics" - such as misrepresenting to
Parliament the CWB and it's economic value,
which is the same as lying.

And since she continues to spout the same
misrepresentations, she too is in contempt of
good debate (an evil for any good editor).

Comments like "... the silent majority of farmers in
Western Canada actually supported the CWB
monopoly" are a strong indication that Laura is not
willing to accept the FACT that there is no
reasonable, objective evidence that supports that
statement. She repeats it simply because she
wants people to believe it because it supports her
"world view" and she's still fighting the pro-CWB
battle.

Laura clearly does not support civil disobedience
by farmers that wanted the end of the single desk.

I wonder what she thinks about Brigette De
Pape's civil disobedience with her little escapade
as a Senate Page.

My guess is she thought Brigette's actions were
justified. After all, Laura hates Harper too.

[bucket]

And had those border runners been charged under the cwb act for whatever reason the cwb would have been long gone by now and the farmers would have never been charged or convicted of anything. That is why they pardoned, because had they been charged under the corresponding act they were disobeying, the law would not have stood.

[hoppsing]

Lost in all of this is the evidence that not all but many of the border runners were actually tax and creditor evaders.

[ASRG]

The border runners were "tax evaders or creditor evaders"?
The two I knew weren't? They walked across the border with a bushel of grain! They were standing up for a principle not trying to rip off the government!
Maybe TOM4 should tell us if he was trying to rip off the government or ripping off his creditors?
No one should smear honorable people, doing what they believe is right, by implying they were common criminals?

[wilagro]

Even today if you "run the border" without proper permits, inspection or proper bills of lading and don't obey protocols from either side you will be subject to the same treatment those "freedom fighters" received and with similar penalties.

Those people where not "heroes" in the true sense of the word but friggin' REBELS like Louis Riel was years ago and they hung him.

[TOM4CWB]

Hopsing;

"not all but many"

How many?

OF the Alberta Farmers at the Coutts crossing...who went to jail... or were convicted... and paid the fine:

HOW MANY were stealing from Creditors or the Gov. revenue from that grain that was exported...?

ZERO. NOT ONE. I know all the folks on the Alberta 1996 July run...

The ones who were convicted AFTER Goodale changed the Law (CWB Regs) in May of 1996 with his Infamous 'Order in Council' requireing reporting in writing to Customs... (Manitoba Court ruled no law requiring reporting before that Goodale 'Order in Council'...)

Show me evidence to the contrary... any written or legal evidence.

What Minister Goodale did... deserved the ultimate disgrace. He knew what he was doing was WRONG morally and legally.

[ASRG]

wilagro- Are you suggesting these guys should have been hung like Riel?
The Alberta government has called for the pardon of Riel. Manitoba honors him as the "Father of Manitoba" and honors him with "Louis Riel day" every February. Generally Riel is considers a "father of Confederation"!

Riel stood up against injustice. He was a freedom fighter.

You can be thankful our modern "freedom fighters" relied on restraint and civil disobediance, instead of taking up the gun!

Yes, the border runners are heroes. They were standing up against injustice, while guys like you were supporting socialist/communist tyranny.

[wilagro]

ASRG: I have NEVER supported tyranny whether it came from the left or right of the political sphere of influence. Don't paint me with that brush.

[ASRG]

When I am forced to sell my production and labour to a government monopoly, without proper compensation.....yea that is tyranny.
At the same time my neighbor in Ontario is NOT forced to sell his product and labour? That is neither fair or just!

Property can never be expropriated without fair compensation and the right to challenge that compensation in a court of law.....at least not in a country that adheres to the rule of law! Obviously in the communist countries and fascist countries there is no rule of law....just the rule of men, whether kings or mob rule (democracy-without the rule of law)!

[wilagro]

ASRG: So your greatest concern was "the fair compensation" bit. Of course the "open market" in your estimation would have given you this elusive "fair compensation"?...am I right?

So you really don't know if this open market would really give you more return but the "open market" proponents convinced you that this was the case.

Well, you'll NOW get the compensation you so deserve. Let's hope that you're right.

I suppose you do know that in the "dirty thirties" the farmers of western Canada practically begged the federal government to take over the Pools and save their hides...and that is how the revived CWB came about.

The formation of the revived CWB was very reluctantly brought in by the PC government of the day. I'm sure that it wouldn't happen in today's world.

[jdepape]

wilagro:

For the sake of good history, Don't forget that the
pools went broke because they thought they were
bigger than the market. Seeing prices drop, they
refused to sell thinking if they could hold grain off
the market, the prices would rebound.
Unfortunately, they were wrong.

Add to that arrogance, they refused to hedge their
grain inventories due to a mistrust of the Winnipeg
Grain Exchange.