Saskfarmer3 ?

[Hopperbin]

I just find it hard to believe so either I have more widely fluctuating net income than most others or crop and or hail ins is paying out in those times for others where I am collecting the agristability. I believe your crop ins and hail ins premiums reduces your ref margin am I correct 99? Then the payouts by those ins will reduce your payments from agristability. So yes maybe a farmer like myself will have a more effective agristabily than someone with crop and hail ins. I myself do not want to deal with crop ins or hail ins and would prefer to go it alone with agristability. I also do not want the larger farmers getting such big payments either so I think lowering the payout trigger on agristability is a good thing.

[ColevilleH2S]

mbratrud. By including allowable expenses, were they wanting to cut out any low input producers, such as the organic guys from ever triggering a payment?

[mbratrud]

Check out link below and read the part about reference Margins. I think you are missing my point. Reduced Reference margin Calculation means If your Reference Margin is $100 and Acre but your alloawable expenses are $50. your calculation will be based on 70% of $50.

http://www.agr.gc.ca/cb/index_e.php?s1=n&s2=2012&page=n120914b2

[Hopperbin]

How I take it the ref margin will not change, instead of 85 percent of the 50 dollar coverage the farmer will get 70 percent of 50 dollars if his ref margin is 50 dollars.

[Hopperbin]

Hopper it may seem that you are collecting more from Agristability only because you are not taking substitute programs like crop or hail. Its like income taxes, agristability is only a percentage of the loss of income (60 cents to 80 cents on the dollar lost). If you can make the extra buck on marketing, crop insurance etc you are better off at the end of the day.

You will never be disadvantaged by self insuring as the program will calculate your reference margin again without the revenue and expenses from crop/hail. If your reference margin is higher when they do this you will receive additional money.

The other thing you must remember is that any claims from crop and hail stay in your reference margin so its like insurance for future agristability coverage as well

[mbratrud]

Cut and pasted from Info about changes on their Website.

Limited Reference Margins

For 2013, producers' reference margins (support level under the program) will be limited to the lower of their historical reference margin or allowable expenses reported in previous years.

________________

For most producers this would mean 70% of their expenses, because if your allowable expenses are higher than your reference Margin on a long term average, you are not likely farming.

[cottonpicken]

Thanks for all the good info.

Am i right in saying that if crop insurance coverage
continues to climb like it has payouts will be not
happen?(pretty dumb question)

[Hopperbin]

mbratrud limitting your payment to no more than your allowable expenses I do not think really changes anything. Is it even possible to get a payment equal to your elligable expenses. That would be one honkin huge payment.

[Hopperbin]

Sask99 I disagree with you yet I never worked it out on paper. Need a brain like Charliep's to do that. But how i look at it Crop ins and Hail ins are basically ins and no money is really made on them programs above your premium over the year I would take my statement here as correct. So if the premiums reduce your ref margin and payouts from the ins increase your ref margin your ref margin will be about equal if you had the other insurance or not. But no one is figuring in that your payments from crop and hail are directly deducted from you agristability payment costing you sometimes the entire payment from the other ins. OK sometimes deducted not always. Now why not let a farmer like me collect from agristabilty occationally, cause i do save the gov't money in the end cause I am not contributing to the gov'ts indebtedness to crop ins every year. Having a choice creates efficiencies I hope everyone can understand that. Some can choose crap ins or some can choose agristability.

[mbratrud]

That's my point CP. If you are required to be in crop insurance for full benefit of Agristabilty for a Grain Farmer anyway. Why would you pay an Agristabilty premium when you have virtually no hope of collecting. That is what they (government) are hoping to achieve I suppose.

So Hopperbin. If your average allowable expenses on your Farm are $100 say, and you are required to be in crop insurance, can you imagine your average farm allowable Revenue to be under $70 per acre? and then any dollar under that you get 70% of. Even in a Disaster you can actually imagine getting a good payout??? What am i missing here?