Saskfarmer3 ?

[Hopperbin]

Putting you on the spot here. Since you complain the most about agristablility and not getting any. Agristablity that is. Since the program is dropping the trigger by 15 percent of margin do you think it wise to drop the program. It does not cost much other than if got a high priced accountant like I have. How do you compare the service to say crop ins where you are forced possibly to grow crops on how much coverage they give you? Agristability allows a farmer the most freedom to do what is best for the farm in my opinion. I like agristability and I like that the trigger is dropping cause that may be the savior of the program. I most likely have gotten more out of the program because I do not take crop ins. That is my opinion not my accountants.

[farmaholic]

Hopper: I just want to make a comment regarding collecting from ag-stability. I have collected only once and that was the frost of 2004(and had to give some back the next year). Nothing before or after,(maybe this year-canola wreck). How many years has it been around? It obviously hasn't been a windfall for me and that is okay with me. I just would appreciate it if they left it as is. A seventy percent trigger will make it even more difficult to trigger. I never "worked(farmed)" the program either, obviously. I need to look at the changes.... and see how it will affect me.

[mbratrud]

Hopper, you better read up on Agristabilty and not rely so much on your accountant. You NEED to be in crop insurance for Agristabilty to kick in fully for you. YOU MUST CARRY 70% COVERAGE. And it did not simply drop to 70% it dropped to 70% of your reference Margin or 70% of your allowable expenses which ever is LOWER. For most farms this drops coverage to like 30% or less. So yes agristabilty will be around for a long time, because it will never trigger again.

[mbratrud]

Wrong Maybe you should listen to your accountant. <grin>

[mbratrud]

I think he deals with FBC if I remember correctly. Those young kids they send to your farm door don't know shit about farm business mgt or any programs. I think hopper educates them.

[Hopperbin]

Not sure what that was all about. Your ref margin is your average calculated according to agristability which is much higher than your net income for a grain producer. So 70 percent is OK by me if it saves the program. I am not going to believe anyone that claims they have never collected or only collected in one year. You do not have to be in crop insurance to participate in agristability unless that just changed and I don't know about that cause I have never been in crop ins for 18 years and at the moment still enfolled in agristability. I do not trust my accountant any further than I can throw him and to double check the figures all I need to do is add subtract mult and div so I would think most farmers have that ability. Years ago there was that early payment thing where farmers could get over paid in the early payment but every farmer is still treated equally according to there achieved ref marg.

[mbratrud]

Hopper you can be in Agristabilty but if
you are not in Crop Insurance at 70
percent they claw back the amount you
would have received from CI from any
Agstabilty Payment. Again the "New
Level" is NOT 70 percent of your
reference Margin. Read the fine print.
It is the LOWER of your Ref Margin OR
your Allowable expenses.

Anyway doesn't matter Government should
just get out of Subsidizing/Insuring
Farming and Let Private sector develop
insurance without worrying about
competing with gov't programs.

[SASKFARMER3]

Hopper just got home with the machines, first time
in a week, so they will need some tune ups
tomorrow then on to the last 16.
Any way we carry crop insurance I know what it
costs me, but between crop insurance and hail
insurance I sleep very good. Agristability is cheap
for a top off, but don't count it. Got a check back in
2002, then a audit by them in 2008, then fight with
boxes of paper, and Bam I owe them over a
hundred thousand dollars. So you pay them back.
Yes that's why it ps me.
I always wished they would have a strong crop
insurance and that's it.

[riders2010]

It will never trigger again, except for the 3 million, 2 million, and 1 million payouts where accountants have it figured out pretty much before these corps grow the crop they will get a payout by shuffling this and that back and forth. The average family farm that is honest will get f all. We keep talking about gov waste either make it effective or get rid of it.

[farmaholic]

Hopper, why do you not believe that someone may have never collected or only recieved Ag Stability payments once? I did only once. I didn't shuffle inventory from one year to the next or farmed the program.

[Hopperbin]

I just find it hard to believe so either I have more widely fluctuating net income than most others or crop and or hail ins is paying out in those times for others where I am collecting the agristability. I believe your crop ins and hail ins premiums reduces your ref margin am I correct 99? Then the payouts by those ins will reduce your payments from agristability. So yes maybe a farmer like myself will have a more effective agristabily than someone with crop and hail ins. I myself do not want to deal with crop ins or hail ins and would prefer to go it alone with agristability. I also do not want the larger farmers getting such big payments either so I think lowering the payout trigger on agristability is a good thing.

[ColevilleH2S]

mbratrud. By including allowable expenses, were they wanting to cut out any low input producers, such as the organic guys from ever triggering a payment?

[mbratrud]

Check out link below and read the part about reference Margins. I think you are missing my point. Reduced Reference margin Calculation means If your Reference Margin is $100 and Acre but your alloawable expenses are $50. your calculation will be based on 70% of $50.

http://www.agr.gc.ca/cb/index_e.php?s1=n&s2=2012&page=n120914b2

[Hopperbin]

How I take it the ref margin will not change, instead of 85 percent of the 50 dollar coverage the farmer will get 70 percent of 50 dollars if his ref margin is 50 dollars.

[Hopperbin]

Hopper it may seem that you are collecting more from Agristability only because you are not taking substitute programs like crop or hail. Its like income taxes, agristability is only a percentage of the loss of income (60 cents to 80 cents on the dollar lost). If you can make the extra buck on marketing, crop insurance etc you are better off at the end of the day.

You will never be disadvantaged by self insuring as the program will calculate your reference margin again without the revenue and expenses from crop/hail. If your reference margin is higher when they do this you will receive additional money.

The other thing you must remember is that any claims from crop and hail stay in your reference margin so its like insurance for future agristability coverage as well