Author Topic:Monanto’s Bt-Toxins Found to Kill Human Embryo Cells
pourfarmer posted Jan 24, 2014 12:13
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New research shows that BT toxins are
showing up in pregnant women, and low and
behold – they are killing human embryo
cells
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic
le/pii/S0890623811000566
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farmaholic posted Jan 24, 2014 12:18
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UFC ORGANICS vs CONVENTIONAL.
Tagteam cage match
On the card; pourfarmer, lakenheath, and parsley
versus bucket and woembis.
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pourfarmer posted Jan 24, 2014 12:32
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hahaha yea unfortunately, sometimes it
feels like that
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lakenheath posted Jan 24, 2014 14:19
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I am NOT organic, nor do I plan on becoming
organic. But I do have respect for good organic
farmers. And I do not blindly buy into every aspect
of conventional farming nor do I blindly defend all
conventional science and technology.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 24, 2014 14:51
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Lakenheath, you are not alone.
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fjlip posted Jan 24, 2014 15:35
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BT is used in organic ag.
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ColevilleH2S posted Jan 24, 2014 15:36
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Before I even read the link my first
question is: If BT is so toxic why are
organic farmers allowed to spread it
willy-nilly all over their customers
food?
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Hopperbin posted Jan 24, 2014 17:13
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I think the organic industry only thinks its dangerous to put the BT genes into the plants by genetic modification. Looks like spraying on is ignored by the organic industry. My view is organic agriculture may not use precise application methods either so who knows what your getting. Does the consumer know about this?
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:23
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How about challenging ourselves by reading more than the abstract and straining your eyes on reading charts which just don't have the resolution to tell what you think is concluded.
Fortunately that can be done without spending $30.00 some dollars. Here's the link to the whole research report
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic
le/pii/S0890623811000566
Next step is to not argue three different chemicals in the same breath...at least not to begin with.
Lets start by seeing what the study had to say about that evil compound known as Roundup; and now available; without patent protection from many sources. It is listed first; and it is the trademark that catches everyone's eye first.
I would suggest that the first exercise is for everyone to find all the evidence (damning and not; that pertains to maternal and fetal data found or confirmed by this particular study.
Do that and we'll see what open minded people can garner from this study.
Remember; if Roundup and Monsanto are the devil incarnated; that there surely is a host of factual evidence you can point to in this studies report.
Hint: no trace of serum glyphosate was found in any of the pregnant subjects.
Now ....time to logically argue what this study has found concerning glyphosate (Roundup) and maternal and fetal exposure in this paricular study.
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:29
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Sorry about that link. This should provide the whole research report
https://www.uclm.es/Actividades/repositorio/pdf/doc_3721_4666.pdf
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:35
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Well one must be more crafty I guess. Soething about copyright protection and google and pdf fies I suppose.... . Trust me... a full published report exists at no cost. But Google doeslet you in with this direct link fro the Google results
Google the following:
maternal fetal exposures Eastern Townships
it's the first pdf link in the google results
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:38
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C'mon pars....please confirm that at least one other reader has been able to see the real report.
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bobofthenorth posted Jan 24, 2014 21:09
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I can read the link oneoff and (not surprisingly) it definitely does not support the sensational heading to this thread.
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parsley posted Jan 24, 2014 21:57
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Too busy working on transportation; railroads. Having
an organic vs conventional fistfight is a dandy
diversion on a rainy day, but the railroad inertia is
really important oneoff. You're bright and know how to
work. and dig. Get at it. Pars
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ColevilleH2S posted Jan 24, 2014 21:59
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Well I finally got to sit down and read the paper, and find it funny that someone who is a supporter of the Organic sector would be encouraging people to read it.
The two substances that are not allowed in organics (glyphosate and gluphosinate) were "nd" that is "non-detectable" in the pregnant women and the cord blood.
BUT the pesticide ALLOWED by the Organic sector to be spread over organic food crops was detected in 93% of pregnant test subjects, and 80% of the cord blood.
So why did did pourfarmer use the blatantly misleading title they did, when it more truthfully should read;
Organic Foods Plastered with Pesticide cause Maternal Mayhem.
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wd9 posted Jan 25, 2014 1:18
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This one's a pretty old pathetic media grabber for the uniformed, but
oh well:
In 2011 there was some media speculation about a paper published by
Aziz Aris and Samuel Leblanc titled ‘Maternal and fetal exposure to
pesticides associated to genetically modified foods in Eastern
Townships of Quebec, Canada.'
A number of methodological and interpretive limitations of this paper
limit the relevance of the reported findings and conclusions about
food safety. The key limitations include insensitivity of the assay
method used and unsubstantiated and invalid assumptions regarding the
source of the Cry1Ab protein in the diets of test subjects. Media
speculation arising from this paper has also presented conclusions
about the human health relevance of this paper which are not
supported by either the paper itself or the broader scientific
literature
There have been claims in the media that the paper is proof GM foods
are not safe for human consumption.
However, the paper does not discuss the safety implications of
finding Cry1Ab in the human body and the authors make no mention of
any abnormalities in either the subjects or, in the case of those who
were pregnant at the time of the study, the subsequent process of
birth or the health of the mothers and babies postpartum.
The Cry1Ab protein, whether ingested via Btk-sprayed conventional or
organic crops or GM corn products containing the protein, is safe for
human consumption at the levels likely to be found in these sources.
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wd9 posted Jan 25, 2014 1:20
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Pourfarmer, how can you call a fake study
from 2010 new?
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oneoff posted Jan 25, 2014 7:14
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I guess a few more hints need to be made very very clear.
As has been pointed out; this isn't a new study at all. It's a 2010 submission and 2011 at best.
Also serum glyphosate levels were undetectable in the pregnant woman group. For those that can't jump to a conclusion......that means that not one trace was found in any of the 30 odd pregger individuals.
That should be very reassuring to absolutely everyone. It just doesn't get any better than that.
Additionally; for gylphosate; absolutely no "metabolites".....that is breakdown end products of glyphosate....could be detected in any of the pregger group.
Again absolutely the best news for everyone concerned in any way about effects on future generations. Except for those who want to prove otherwise; and will continue that crusade til they die from something other than Roundup coplications.
Now would be a good time for a shred of evidence from Roundup paranoids to
a) provide a shred of evidence showing glyphosate harm or potential harm. I'd be suprised if there weren't an odd p>.05 anomaly......so why not point everyone in that direction so there can be ore careful scrutiny.
b) apologize for jumping to conclusions that make no sense except in your closed sphere
c) refrain from embarrassing yourself by continually repeating garbage and BS studies that don't meet any standards except a simplistic affront to research and goals of honestly trying to investigate potential side effects (which everyone would be naive to totally dismiss outriht).
d) keep the headlines within the bounds of reality; and maybe don't always pick and choose what suits your personal agenda. That comes across as an affront to everyone that isn't of your own ilk.
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oneoff posted Jan 25, 2014 7:23
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Too busy working on transportation; railroads. Having
an organic vs conventional fistfight is a dandy
diversion on a rainy day, but the railroad inertia is
really important oneoff. You're bright and know how to
work. and dig. Get at it. Pars
IF THATS HOW YOU CAN'T SAY YOU'VE BEEN DUPED IN THE ANTI ROUNDUP CRUSADE; THEN I JUST LOST A LOT OF RESPECT FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE'S OPINIONS; ON EVERY IMAGINABLE ISSUE.
ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN IS AN ADMISSION THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THERE IN THAT PARTICULAR QUEBEC REOPRT TO DAMN GLYPLHOSATE.
AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY THAT.
SORELY DISAPPOINTED; PARS
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parsley posted Jan 25, 2014 8:04
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I should read the links posted, but did not take the
time as Parliament opens next week. Good time
to have transportation issues in front of a few
MP's. If farmers don't suggest improvements,
perhaps plumbers and electricians will. Pars
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mustardman posted Jan 25, 2014 9:31
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Parsley please tell me your Not going to ask for revenue cap Removal
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parsley posted Jan 25, 2014 10:17
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Want to maintain and strengthen producer-cars.
Only stick we have, mussy. Hope you were able
to get grain out.
Hope some of you boys did not take your eye off
the UPOV '91 ball. It's important but so under the
radar, it's as if it's less than meets the eye, Pars
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mustardman posted Jan 25, 2014 14:05
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Got rid of half of my wheat doing pretty good compared to some. Upov 91 I hope is the final push that gets farmers riled up
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 1:36
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Being able to post an outrageous headline and then running for cover is something that damages confidence in all sides of debates.
That only works to the benefit of any side wishing to drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
And that is the easiest way (and maybe the only guaranteed way) to effect a quick change when you don't really care about consequences.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 11:39
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Try this for an "outrageous" headline, onedown:
http://sustainablepulse.com/2013/09/19/el-
salvador-government-bans-roundup-over-deadly-
kidney-disease/
It essentially means that six million more people
don't want Roundup Crops. To grow them or eat
them. 6M potential customers! Yup. Delete that
list when you're marking. Betcha El Salavador
won't buy Roundup wheat either in case you
have notions about growing it. But why worry?
There are only 60 countries who want to ban c
crops that they view as unhealthy. You
know...Pesticides. Glysophates.
Hope the link doesn't give the "I Love Pesticides"
crew the Sunday morning hiccups.
My morning breaktime, Pars
#HowToRuinYourMarkets
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fjlip posted Jan 26, 2014 12:42
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And gluten is evil, 30% of consumers swear off wheat. Veg oils processed with poison (hexane), and turn into trans fat when heated or made into margarine. Meat full of antibiotics, bacteria, and hormones. Milk not good for humans. Rice has too much arsenic. Farmed fish unhealthy, soon we all croak.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 13:46
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We really need to find a commercial use for
Organic SowThistles. Then all of our problems
are solved.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 14:12
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Weeds are indeed problematic. But during the
past few wet years, the weeds in conventional
fields were were simply spectacular....
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wd9 posted Jan 26, 2014 15:00
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El Salvador, its a knee jerk reaction to
counter kidney issues of agro workers by
banning 53 pesticides, including
glyphosate.
List includes most of the chemistry used
all over the world including us.
But, the organic freaks have got to turn
it around to say Roundup crops kill.
Pathetic.
Maybe the exported organic products from
El Salvador will actually be under MRL
for pesticides now. Doubtful though.
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wd9 posted Jan 26, 2014 15:15
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http://www.sundaytimes.lk/130922/sunday-
times-2/ckd-el-salvador-follows-lanka-
63213.html
A balanced article on the profitability
vs toxicity in El S.
Apparently there is high levels of
cadmium and arsenic in the environment
in the area where the problems exist.
But as always, lets not get facts get in
the way of how horrible monsanto is and
their evil roundup.
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hobbyfrmr posted Jan 26, 2014 16:43
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Nice try on the sow thistle jab. People who live in
glass houses should not throw stones. I always
enjoy listening to my neighbours describe an out
break. the chemical didn't work and . "It
looks...well, it looks like an organic field"
****ing dumbass, spray it again. They have
access to chemicals, pay a quarter million for a
sprayer and still do a bad job.
Go back to the store and charge up another 11
jugs of stuff, get out there and hit it again.
Sheesh. Some people have to slight other to
make up for their own incompetence.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 17:16
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Hobby, I never said I was competent, nor was I
taking a jab. I was being honest. Everyone has
weeds. Where all those seeds come from is
beyond me.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 17:17
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Hobby, I never said I was competent, nor was I
taking a jab. I was being honest. Everyone has
weeds. Where all those seeds come from is
beyond me.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 17:29
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Hey, "Mr. I Love Pesticides", the point I made
was: 6 Million potential customers just told you
they don't want to use glysophate or eat
glysoohate crops. So, that market went up in
flames, too.
I thought you'd recognize your loss of market
share when an entire country abandoned
glysophate. Pars
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 17:32
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I agree sumdum, weeds are all over. Organics
fight with them, though. I do! Conventional
farmers simply develop resistant-weeds and have
to resort to hand-weeding them.
Hmmm Pars
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 18:04
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Well you certainly addressed the glysophate
iasue, wd:
"El Salvador, its a knee jerk reaction"
I don't know if El Salvadorans would appreciate
that kind of response n
Callous marketing is sure to lose customers
every sibgle time, albeit in this case only 6M
knee-jerker customers.
If I was a Monsanto exec, I'd really push to hire
frontmen that know how to treat people as if they
are people. And try to lessen the tide of hatred
headed straight for my company, on blogs and
comments and LtoE's before the shares head
south . #Shitstorms
And as a small farmer, I'm sure you are worried,
too.
Just a thought. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:44
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Its evident that it pleases parsnips et al every time the bathwater gets thrown out; towels; babies and any trace of "poison" notwithstanding.
How about next time; before you call for; or take some drastic action (with its consequences); at least have a clue about what the root cause of the problem is.
I keep reading that heavy metals are strongly suspected; but of course not positively identified as the problem. Maybe that is where the efforts should be focused. (Banning heavy etal contamination.)
Maybe at least see if those 50 chemicals have at least some significant heavy metal content. If not; don't be suprized that banning chemicals will not have solved any problems.
Now if handling procedures are pretty slack (eg. dipping measuring jugs; hands and all into full strength vats) then for God's sake legislate gloves and warnings that even illiterate people can understand.
As for parsnip et al's deficient mental pathways associated with the Roundup tradname and its use in modern farming systems ; I'm afraid that not much can be done externally except foolishly appeasing the impossible to please.
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hobbyfrmr posted Jan 26, 2014 19:49
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Honestly sumdum, in August, go for a drive and
look for weeds. I was always looking at the crop
or into the field.
If you look in the ditch on both sides of road,
neighbours pastures, the approach into the
neighbours farm, they are everywhere. Ironically,
Canada thistle and sow thistle thrive on
conventional farmers headlands. There used to
be fences, grass, or a basic shrub or treeline.
Now, every farmer puts a nozzle over that junk
and sprays that extra 2 feet with glyphosate
during burn off to keep the quack grass at bay. It
works excellent. The quack grass dies leaving
room for another plant, Canada thistle to thrive
without competition. Then there is the low spots
that are too wet, and the 65 foot seeder doesn't
go into that corner. Sow thistle loves those spots. I
am not looking to pick a fight, but it's kind of neat,
once you actually start looking for weed origin,
you will see it.
In my area, the railway was abandoned three
years ago. The salvage crew came through last
year. By August, there was Canada thistle thriving
on both sides of the rail bed 2 solid lines of
thistle from Denholm,Sk to Meadow Lake Sask.
Not a peep out of the farmers. Carlton Trail
Railroad.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:57
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The good news pars is that you won't find those chemical resistant weeds one bit harder to control;than the abundant weeds you now doubt have to contend with.
Now if organic producers harbor the thought that chemical resistant superweeds are a threat to organic farmers; then you really haven't opened your mind to anything that confirms what you think you already know.
And that bullshit about not insulting your customers. Anyone who can't stand hearing another side of a story is a total lost cause; is no long term customer; and in constant need of a feeding their fickle needs and preferences. Let them feed themselves. And if you can't do it without Roundup residues; then everything that is peddled (including 50% of organic tested foodstuffs in Canada) might as well be out of the same pile/is out of the same pile.
There....
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:57
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The good news pars is that you won't find those chemical resistant weeds one bit harder to control;than the abundant weeds you now doubt have to contend with.
Now if organic producers harbor the thought that chemical resistant superweeds are a threat to organic farmers; then you really haven't opened your mind to anything that confirms what you think you already know.
And that bullshit about not insulting your customers. Anyone who can't stand hearing another side of a story is a total lost cause; is no long term customer; and in constant need of a feeding their fickle needs and preferences. Let them feed themselves. And if you can't do it without Roundup residues; then everything that is peddled (including 50% of organic tested foodstuffs in Canada) might as well be out of the same pile/is out of the same pile.
There....
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 20:22
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Assuming the ban on 53 agricultural chemicals was instituted last September in El Salvador; let the people who know nothing enlighten the world as to how kidney disease has been totally contained; how not one more agricultural worker will ever die in El Salvador; and how we can now ignore heat stress; heavy metal contamination and silica exposure and a host of contributing factors to sickness and illnesses; for ever more.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 21:17
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Six million people in El Salvador didn't make any decision on anything. I'm also damn sure they aren't signiicant customers of any sector in Canada; and those residents are just likely being lead by zealots taking advantage of an apparently serious disease outbreak with totally undiagnosed causes.
Just like would be taken advantage of in any other part of the world by totally equally unscrupulous people.
Now show the anecdotal data to bring this type of hysteria to our necks of the woods. Oh! I didn't forget your headlines; including the El Salvador link.
But remember that 50% pesticide residue that CFIA found in all organically labelled food. That one is very very hard to explain to those diehard consumers. Do they not ask questions...and how do you sugarcoat a 50% fraud rating.
I'm fully fed up with hypocricy. Maybe others aren't; but that just demonstrates what they will put up with.....until they get some other alternatives lined up.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 21:19
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My, my, oneoff, you sound as if your finger got
caught in the car door and you came in testy.
You say it as you think it: "let the people who
know nothing enlighten the world"
El Salvador did enlighten you, oneoff An ENTIRE
COUNTRY don't want to plant glysophate crops.
And they don't want to eat glysophate crops.
That's as plain as it gets.
And you missed the message. Wow. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 23:22
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And if those 6 million people (out of about 6 billion) are as poisoned as you would have us believe (from totally unknown causes) just like cliac disease and gluten intolerance that is so important to you in this country
then you have it all tied together by the glyphosate molecule.
Well its just possible that life in this century is just a little more complicated than your wanna be simple lifestyle that in reality doesn't remotely resemble the reality of even 80 year old Saskatchewan living standards.
Just as Im' pretty sure Rob Ford has enough solid support to get elected in Toronto in the next elections; I'm also pretty sure that 80 % literacy (and no doubt less in the remoter agricultural regions of a densely populated Central American state) doesn't equate into 100% of the people having a full idea of what is causing their health problems.
And neither do I; and especially I'm sure; neither do you; or the followers of your remedies for sick people.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 23:34
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It would seem best to seek advice from healthy societies; instead of dwelling on cures and treatments supposedly found by survivors who in middle age have managed to have come to the point they feel they have their diseases under varying degrees of control...after decades of inactivity; sugar overload; various addictions and now no need for much personal exertion.
Its going to take more than organics to cure all that.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 23:44
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Your pen is running away from the point, oneoff:
A nation does not wish to eat or buy what you
grow. No matter the reason.
You have lost six million people interested in
buying what you grow.
You can insult them. Berate them. Feel superior.
But they have rejected your products. Think
about that. Don't yell at organics. Or at blue
cheese. Or at the moon.
International buyers don't want to buy what you
grow.
Let that sink in for a few days. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 27, 2014 0:43
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Then all that is left is equally pesticide contaminated foodstuffs.
And that will have to be fraudulently peddled.
Think about that for the rest of your farming career. Except you only currently have enough for a 2% share.
Tell the world where those facts are in error.
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oneoff posted Jan 27, 2014 0:45
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The end of a complete waste of thoughts . I promise
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wd9 posted Jan 27, 2014 1:05
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6 million people did not say anything.
Makes me wonder what you are saying in
Ottawa considering what you post.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 9:35
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Parsley, 6 million people didn't say
no. A sub committed of a dozen probably
made the decision while hundreds of
thousands of "customers" go hungry
because of decades of poor policy.
You certainly do have your finger on the
pulse of the consumer and you and your
amigos know what buttons to push. What i
don't get is the constant need to wack
conventional farming on the shins.
There is one contradiction about you
that continues to baffle me...you claim
to be a proponent of choice yet you
applaud GOVERNMENTS for legislating
certain food grains out of the market???
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 11:35
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Choice? El salvador made their own choice. Not
I. Nor should I even contemplate choosing for
them.
I would suggest that you absorb the message El
Salvador sent to Monsanto.
It was a sharp bitch-slap.
if you are not in agreement with El Salvadorans,
gather up your "I Love Pesticides" crew, pack a
down-home speech about how third world
dummies need to listen to experts, and get
Monsanto to fund your educational exercise.
Ill look gorward to you posting a picture the
welcoming committee on Agriville. Pars
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 11:43
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A government made a choice,
not the people.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 16:40
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El Salvador is a Republic. They have a
constitution. They have a democratic and
representative legislature. And a Supreme Court.
They elected their government from a choice of
six parties.
So, ado, because people elected their
government, that government makes decisions in
their interest. That's the way it works.
If Monsanto is unhappy with a democratic
country's decision to turf out glysophate by
legislation, they will simply have to accept that a
government elected by its' citizens, have every
right to do so.
But, journey there, by all means, ado, with
biotech's Ron Doering's speech in hand, and tell
El Salvadorans how scientifically illiterate they
are; that way you'll stay on Biotech's message to
the dimwits in society. Parsley
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Hopperbin posted Jan 27, 2014 17:02
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Parsley in all fairness do organic growers use this BT. And also if they do, it does actually wash off and does not enter inside the plant according to the organic industry correct. Monsanto actually puts the BT inside every part of the plant making it part of the consumable. And looks like because it was Monsanto that done it is very bad. Monsanto needs a name change.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 17:30
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Parsley,
Extending your logic would means that
you supported Trudeau 's National energy
program, or Chretien 's long gun
registry, bennetes CWB, mulroney's gst,
pick your policy. Politics is all about
making sure that the balance is
maintained between supporters of an
issue those who don't care or are not
engaged vs those that oppose the policy.
Further investigation of this topic will
likely lead to a large don't know or
don't care segment. As per usual you are
being over dramatic and associating the
actions of a government with the
sentiment of an entire nation. Though
the end result is the same the
dissension is very different.
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wd9 posted Jan 27, 2014 17:38
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Anything to sell organics eh Pars? The
real story, producing chemicals and
dumping by-products in poor agro areas
causing heavy metal death and
destruction just so you can enjoy that
shiny new iphone without waste in your
own backyard.
It's called corporate transference of
risk.
Didn't think you were that uninformed,
but never am disappointed by how much.
So in the mean time the government is
'working' on a solution by deflecting to
a more religious passionate issue where
science doesn't matter. Brilliant, but
oh the suffering of human lives. Not
that you would care tho obviously.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 17:46
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You can continue to argue that you don't agree
with El Salvador's political decision. My point is
they made it a decision you don't like.
Too bad.
And you can continue to insult 6 Million
consumers in that country. Good luck.
And you can try to blame it on organics.
Or your pet cat.
Glysophate got booted out of El Salvador.
So, either tell them, OR go find a goat to beat
the hell out of.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 17:57
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Dont worry about me sending organics to El
Salvador.
But really worry about El Salvadorans marketing
their grains to Canadian consumers.
And that is the best advice you're going to get
today from a fellow farmer.
Canadians substitute countless other grains for
wheat, every day in their shopping carts. And it's
a growing trend. Quinoi, amaranth, ancient
grains, rice, etc.
Houston, there's a problem.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 18:09
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I believe that we were questioning the
motives and wisdom of the policy makers
not the 6 million consumers.
The end result is the same, you are
right.
I find the world we live in today
fascinating. A longing for nostalgia
that is turning back the last 3
generations of food and health progress.
Between the anti vacer's, organic folks,
ect it's only a matter of time before we
fall back to being at the whim of
starvation and pestilence.
Parsley, how many of your parents or
grand parents siblings didn't live past
childhood?
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mbdog posted Jan 27, 2014 19:39
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Pars...your answer is the democratic system spoke for 6 million people??? That's it? That's pretty thin and insulting.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 23:21
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"It essentially means that six million more people
don't want Roundup Crops."
That was my initial reaction to Monsanto's latest
fiasco. And still is.
The negative PR alone, with a group of ag
workers sicjk with cancer, will cause every El
Salvadoran to grimace every time the M word is
mentioned.
Otoh, Monsanto's "I love pesticides" trained
selfies want to change the convo to 'just a few
guys' in El Salvador legislated banking
glysophate.
Nuh Nuh.
Cancer is an epidemic, and right now, those
cancer-victims and families are looking for the
cause. And rightly or wrongly, they happen to be
eying up glysophate. And rightly or wrongly,
Monsanto is despised throughout the world.
And don't shoot the messenger. Pars.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 23:25
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That should read.... Banning glysophate. Not
banking.
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oneoff posted Jan 28, 2014 0:16
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Let me see:
Purveyor of outright unsubstantiated lies
Symptoms of "Ambulance chaser"
Not able to entertain any thought that does not confirm that which is already known as fact.
Can not admit even fundamental errors that have no basis in logic.
Refuse to hold themselves to same standards that are demanded of those publically despised. (eg. guilty of same pesticide residues in own peddled products products and yet hold others products up as being not fit for consumption.
Promoting Paranoia without any scientific basis what so ever.
Deceitful propaganda distributed as absolute truth.
Never will admit points which can not be refuted with other than opinion and firmly held belief.
Interested in accumulating all mighty dollars; but show no concern for other than an affluent clientele.
Show no concern whatsoever for mankind outside their customer base.
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oneoff posted Jan 28, 2014 0:30
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Encourage jumping on bandwagon even though only able to supply 2% of market with 50% adulterated pesticide residue containing produce.
Above industry hasn't apparently cleaned up this major problem during last two year period. (CFIA data reported by media). Consumers obviously being taking for an expensive ride; and it is far from clear if this deception is affecting anyone's health in any way.
Obviously a whole movement should like to believe that they are paying for and choosing something different; but in practice; there is no difference except in the sales pitch.
Weak industry response is that "organics remains the healthiest alternative to .......
Etc. etc.
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wd9 posted Jan 28, 2014 1:41
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Its not Monsanto, its not even about GMO
crops, its the banning of 53 chemicals
because the misguided few feel it will
stop heavy metal poisoning.
Groups like the organic industry are
taking the real story, twisting it into
El Salvador doesn't want GMO crops.
Pile of horse crap. Lies and spin. The
organic industry is a sham. The CFIA
easily proved it.
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mbdog posted Jan 28, 2014 9:08
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Pars...I am no fan of Monsanto nor am I defending or promoting any agriculture practice, but you cannot slam them and ignore the fact that people are living longer and healthier lives, and generally have a better quality of life because of modern agriculture. You can if you like I guess...but you're certainly not immune from critique. I think if people knew the truth about what modern agriculture provides them, the organic industry loses every time...especially if the people were actually allowed to vote on it specifically. Maybe El Salvador should try that.
My experience with the messengers has been that most have lead a life of privilege, afforded to them by modern agriculture. A lot of them are in politics, government and media.
I'm not shooting the messenger, just trying to keep it fair and balanced.
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 9:59
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A quote from the website:
http://www.isis.org.uk/Why_Glyphosate_Should_b
e_Banned.php
States:
"Brazil has recently proposed a new bill that will
ban many environmental toxins including
glyphosate [106]. "
Comment was made in 2012 it seems.
It will be interesting to see if the the bill banning
glysophate in El Salvador will further spur Brazil
as well as other South American countries to do
the same.
There is much passion on both sides of the issue;
after all, food impacts every human being. and it
will become more viscious as Monsanto
continues to mount defensive actions.
Organics is a piddly actor in the scene playing
out. We're the water-boys. Consumers are the
world-wide cast. And growing. They are who you
should be addressing, mb
I'll read some of the links from the above
webpage in the dental office this morning.
Reminds me of tobacco company tactics. Pars
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wd9 posted Jan 28, 2014 10:17
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Not a single credible news agency twists
the story the way you have Pars. Only the
organic groups headline mill pumping out
propaganda.
Brazil will never stop using glyphosate
on RR beans, corn, cotton.
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 10:42
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The most difficult battle for those who are paid to
say what they say, is against those say what they
believe in, and stand behind behind it.
Slick paid-for PR campaigns vs consumer
passion in world-wide kitchens. Quite the
phenomena, I find. Pars
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 10:50
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Perhaps I should check on the glysophate
legislation in El Salvador with a dear friend who
has his own TV show in South America. He
highlights current events. And is fluent in many
languages. Just to make sure it's actual
legislation. And ask him to air an investigative
report. He'd appreciate a tip from Canada.I can
get motivated. Pars
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charliep posted Jan 28, 2014 11:15
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Parsley,
So you believe that farmers social license to use glyphosate should be removed? El Salvador can do as it chooses - their decision doesn't impact world markets. Brazil is quite another matter given their importance in world soybean markets. When I look at the numbers, technology has supported the growth in consumption.
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pourfarmer posted Jan 24, 2014 12:13
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New research shows that BT toxins are
showing up in pregnant women, and low and
behold – they are killing human embryo
cells
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic
le/pii/S0890623811000566
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farmaholic posted Jan 24, 2014 12:18
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UFC ORGANICS vs CONVENTIONAL.
Tagteam cage match
On the card; pourfarmer, lakenheath, and parsley
versus bucket and woembis.
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pourfarmer posted Jan 24, 2014 12:32
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hahaha yea unfortunately, sometimes it
feels like that
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lakenheath posted Jan 24, 2014 14:19
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I am NOT organic, nor do I plan on becoming
organic. But I do have respect for good organic
farmers. And I do not blindly buy into every aspect
of conventional farming nor do I blindly defend all
conventional science and technology.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 24, 2014 14:51
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Lakenheath, you are not alone.
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fjlip posted Jan 24, 2014 15:35
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BT is used in organic ag.
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ColevilleH2S posted Jan 24, 2014 15:36
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Before I even read the link my first
question is: If BT is so toxic why are
organic farmers allowed to spread it
willy-nilly all over their customers
food?
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Hopperbin posted Jan 24, 2014 17:13
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I think the organic industry only thinks its dangerous to put the BT genes into the plants by genetic modification. Looks like spraying on is ignored by the organic industry. My view is organic agriculture may not use precise application methods either so who knows what your getting. Does the consumer know about this?
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:23
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How about challenging ourselves by reading more than the abstract and straining your eyes on reading charts which just don't have the resolution to tell what you think is concluded.
Fortunately that can be done without spending $30.00 some dollars. Here's the link to the whole research report
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic
le/pii/S0890623811000566
Next step is to not argue three different chemicals in the same breath...at least not to begin with.
Lets start by seeing what the study had to say about that evil compound known as Roundup; and now available; without patent protection from many sources. It is listed first; and it is the trademark that catches everyone's eye first.
I would suggest that the first exercise is for everyone to find all the evidence (damning and not; that pertains to maternal and fetal data found or confirmed by this particular study.
Do that and we'll see what open minded people can garner from this study.
Remember; if Roundup and Monsanto are the devil incarnated; that there surely is a host of factual evidence you can point to in this studies report.
Hint: no trace of serum glyphosate was found in any of the pregnant subjects.
Now ....time to logically argue what this study has found concerning glyphosate (Roundup) and maternal and fetal exposure in this paricular study.
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:29
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Sorry about that link. This should provide the whole research report
https://www.uclm.es/Actividades/repositorio/pdf/doc_3721_4666.pdf
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:35
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Well one must be more crafty I guess. Soething about copyright protection and google and pdf fies I suppose.... . Trust me... a full published report exists at no cost. But Google doeslet you in with this direct link fro the Google results
Google the following:
maternal fetal exposures Eastern Townships
it's the first pdf link in the google results
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oneoff posted Jan 24, 2014 20:38
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C'mon pars....please confirm that at least one other reader has been able to see the real report.
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bobofthenorth posted Jan 24, 2014 21:09
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I can read the link oneoff and (not surprisingly) it definitely does not support the sensational heading to this thread.
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parsley posted Jan 24, 2014 21:57
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Too busy working on transportation; railroads. Having
an organic vs conventional fistfight is a dandy
diversion on a rainy day, but the railroad inertia is
really important oneoff. You're bright and know how to
work. and dig. Get at it. Pars
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ColevilleH2S posted Jan 24, 2014 21:59
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Well I finally got to sit down and read the paper, and find it funny that someone who is a supporter of the Organic sector would be encouraging people to read it.
The two substances that are not allowed in organics (glyphosate and gluphosinate) were "nd" that is "non-detectable" in the pregnant women and the cord blood.
BUT the pesticide ALLOWED by the Organic sector to be spread over organic food crops was detected in 93% of pregnant test subjects, and 80% of the cord blood.
So why did did pourfarmer use the blatantly misleading title they did, when it more truthfully should read;
Organic Foods Plastered with Pesticide cause Maternal Mayhem.
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wd9 posted Jan 25, 2014 1:18
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This one's a pretty old pathetic media grabber for the uniformed, but
oh well:
In 2011 there was some media speculation about a paper published by
Aziz Aris and Samuel Leblanc titled ‘Maternal and fetal exposure to
pesticides associated to genetically modified foods in Eastern
Townships of Quebec, Canada.'
A number of methodological and interpretive limitations of this paper
limit the relevance of the reported findings and conclusions about
food safety. The key limitations include insensitivity of the assay
method used and unsubstantiated and invalid assumptions regarding the
source of the Cry1Ab protein in the diets of test subjects. Media
speculation arising from this paper has also presented conclusions
about the human health relevance of this paper which are not
supported by either the paper itself or the broader scientific
literature
There have been claims in the media that the paper is proof GM foods
are not safe for human consumption.
However, the paper does not discuss the safety implications of
finding Cry1Ab in the human body and the authors make no mention of
any abnormalities in either the subjects or, in the case of those who
were pregnant at the time of the study, the subsequent process of
birth or the health of the mothers and babies postpartum.
The Cry1Ab protein, whether ingested via Btk-sprayed conventional or
organic crops or GM corn products containing the protein, is safe for
human consumption at the levels likely to be found in these sources.
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wd9 posted Jan 25, 2014 1:20
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Pourfarmer, how can you call a fake study
from 2010 new?
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oneoff posted Jan 25, 2014 7:14
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I guess a few more hints need to be made very very clear.
As has been pointed out; this isn't a new study at all. It's a 2010 submission and 2011 at best.
Also serum glyphosate levels were undetectable in the pregnant woman group. For those that can't jump to a conclusion......that means that not one trace was found in any of the 30 odd pregger individuals.
That should be very reassuring to absolutely everyone. It just doesn't get any better than that.
Additionally; for gylphosate; absolutely no "metabolites".....that is breakdown end products of glyphosate....could be detected in any of the pregger group.
Again absolutely the best news for everyone concerned in any way about effects on future generations. Except for those who want to prove otherwise; and will continue that crusade til they die from something other than Roundup coplications.
Now would be a good time for a shred of evidence from Roundup paranoids to
a) provide a shred of evidence showing glyphosate harm or potential harm. I'd be suprised if there weren't an odd p>.05 anomaly......so why not point everyone in that direction so there can be ore careful scrutiny.
b) apologize for jumping to conclusions that make no sense except in your closed sphere
c) refrain from embarrassing yourself by continually repeating garbage and BS studies that don't meet any standards except a simplistic affront to research and goals of honestly trying to investigate potential side effects (which everyone would be naive to totally dismiss outriht).
d) keep the headlines within the bounds of reality; and maybe don't always pick and choose what suits your personal agenda. That comes across as an affront to everyone that isn't of your own ilk.
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oneoff posted Jan 25, 2014 7:23
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Too busy working on transportation; railroads. Having
an organic vs conventional fistfight is a dandy
diversion on a rainy day, but the railroad inertia is
really important oneoff. You're bright and know how to
work. and dig. Get at it. Pars
IF THATS HOW YOU CAN'T SAY YOU'VE BEEN DUPED IN THE ANTI ROUNDUP CRUSADE; THEN I JUST LOST A LOT OF RESPECT FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE'S OPINIONS; ON EVERY IMAGINABLE ISSUE.
ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN IS AN ADMISSION THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THERE IN THAT PARTICULAR QUEBEC REOPRT TO DAMN GLYPLHOSATE.
AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY THAT.
SORELY DISAPPOINTED; PARS
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parsley posted Jan 25, 2014 8:04
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I should read the links posted, but did not take the
time as Parliament opens next week. Good time
to have transportation issues in front of a few
MP's. If farmers don't suggest improvements,
perhaps plumbers and electricians will. Pars
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mustardman posted Jan 25, 2014 9:31
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Parsley please tell me your Not going to ask for revenue cap Removal
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parsley posted Jan 25, 2014 10:17
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Want to maintain and strengthen producer-cars.
Only stick we have, mussy. Hope you were able
to get grain out.
Hope some of you boys did not take your eye off
the UPOV '91 ball. It's important but so under the
radar, it's as if it's less than meets the eye, Pars
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mustardman posted Jan 25, 2014 14:05
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Got rid of half of my wheat doing pretty good compared to some. Upov 91 I hope is the final push that gets farmers riled up
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 1:36
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Being able to post an outrageous headline and then running for cover is something that damages confidence in all sides of debates.
That only works to the benefit of any side wishing to drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
And that is the easiest way (and maybe the only guaranteed way) to effect a quick change when you don't really care about consequences.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 11:39
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Try this for an "outrageous" headline, onedown:
http://sustainablepulse.com/2013/09/19/el-
salvador-government-bans-roundup-over-deadly-
kidney-disease/
It essentially means that six million more people
don't want Roundup Crops. To grow them or eat
them. 6M potential customers! Yup. Delete that
list when you're marking. Betcha El Salavador
won't buy Roundup wheat either in case you
have notions about growing it. But why worry?
There are only 60 countries who want to ban c
crops that they view as unhealthy. You
know...Pesticides. Glysophates.
Hope the link doesn't give the "I Love Pesticides"
crew the Sunday morning hiccups.
My morning breaktime, Pars
#HowToRuinYourMarkets
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fjlip posted Jan 26, 2014 12:42
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And gluten is evil, 30% of consumers swear off wheat. Veg oils processed with poison (hexane), and turn into trans fat when heated or made into margarine. Meat full of antibiotics, bacteria, and hormones. Milk not good for humans. Rice has too much arsenic. Farmed fish unhealthy, soon we all croak.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 13:46
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We really need to find a commercial use for
Organic SowThistles. Then all of our problems
are solved.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 14:12
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Weeds are indeed problematic. But during the
past few wet years, the weeds in conventional
fields were were simply spectacular....
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wd9 posted Jan 26, 2014 15:00
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El Salvador, its a knee jerk reaction to
counter kidney issues of agro workers by
banning 53 pesticides, including
glyphosate.
List includes most of the chemistry used
all over the world including us.
But, the organic freaks have got to turn
it around to say Roundup crops kill.
Pathetic.
Maybe the exported organic products from
El Salvador will actually be under MRL
for pesticides now. Doubtful though.
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wd9 posted Jan 26, 2014 15:15
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http://www.sundaytimes.lk/130922/sunday-
times-2/ckd-el-salvador-follows-lanka-
63213.html
A balanced article on the profitability
vs toxicity in El S.
Apparently there is high levels of
cadmium and arsenic in the environment
in the area where the problems exist.
But as always, lets not get facts get in
the way of how horrible monsanto is and
their evil roundup.
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hobbyfrmr posted Jan 26, 2014 16:43
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Nice try on the sow thistle jab. People who live in
glass houses should not throw stones. I always
enjoy listening to my neighbours describe an out
break. the chemical didn't work and . "It
looks...well, it looks like an organic field"
****ing dumbass, spray it again. They have
access to chemicals, pay a quarter million for a
sprayer and still do a bad job.
Go back to the store and charge up another 11
jugs of stuff, get out there and hit it again.
Sheesh. Some people have to slight other to
make up for their own incompetence.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 17:16
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Hobby, I never said I was competent, nor was I
taking a jab. I was being honest. Everyone has
weeds. Where all those seeds come from is
beyond me.
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sumdumguy posted Jan 26, 2014 17:17
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Hobby, I never said I was competent, nor was I
taking a jab. I was being honest. Everyone has
weeds. Where all those seeds come from is
beyond me.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 17:29
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Hey, "Mr. I Love Pesticides", the point I made
was: 6 Million potential customers just told you
they don't want to use glysophate or eat
glysoohate crops. So, that market went up in
flames, too.
I thought you'd recognize your loss of market
share when an entire country abandoned
glysophate. Pars
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 17:32
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I agree sumdum, weeds are all over. Organics
fight with them, though. I do! Conventional
farmers simply develop resistant-weeds and have
to resort to hand-weeding them.
Hmmm Pars
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 18:04
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Well you certainly addressed the glysophate
iasue, wd:
"El Salvador, its a knee jerk reaction"
I don't know if El Salvadorans would appreciate
that kind of response n
Callous marketing is sure to lose customers
every sibgle time, albeit in this case only 6M
knee-jerker customers.
If I was a Monsanto exec, I'd really push to hire
frontmen that know how to treat people as if they
are people. And try to lessen the tide of hatred
headed straight for my company, on blogs and
comments and LtoE's before the shares head
south . #Shitstorms
And as a small farmer, I'm sure you are worried,
too.
Just a thought. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:44
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Its evident that it pleases parsnips et al every time the bathwater gets thrown out; towels; babies and any trace of "poison" notwithstanding.
How about next time; before you call for; or take some drastic action (with its consequences); at least have a clue about what the root cause of the problem is.
I keep reading that heavy metals are strongly suspected; but of course not positively identified as the problem. Maybe that is where the efforts should be focused. (Banning heavy etal contamination.)
Maybe at least see if those 50 chemicals have at least some significant heavy metal content. If not; don't be suprized that banning chemicals will not have solved any problems.
Now if handling procedures are pretty slack (eg. dipping measuring jugs; hands and all into full strength vats) then for God's sake legislate gloves and warnings that even illiterate people can understand.
As for parsnip et al's deficient mental pathways associated with the Roundup tradname and its use in modern farming systems ; I'm afraid that not much can be done externally except foolishly appeasing the impossible to please.
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hobbyfrmr posted Jan 26, 2014 19:49
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Honestly sumdum, in August, go for a drive and
look for weeds. I was always looking at the crop
or into the field.
If you look in the ditch on both sides of road,
neighbours pastures, the approach into the
neighbours farm, they are everywhere. Ironically,
Canada thistle and sow thistle thrive on
conventional farmers headlands. There used to
be fences, grass, or a basic shrub or treeline.
Now, every farmer puts a nozzle over that junk
and sprays that extra 2 feet with glyphosate
during burn off to keep the quack grass at bay. It
works excellent. The quack grass dies leaving
room for another plant, Canada thistle to thrive
without competition. Then there is the low spots
that are too wet, and the 65 foot seeder doesn't
go into that corner. Sow thistle loves those spots. I
am not looking to pick a fight, but it's kind of neat,
once you actually start looking for weed origin,
you will see it.
In my area, the railway was abandoned three
years ago. The salvage crew came through last
year. By August, there was Canada thistle thriving
on both sides of the rail bed 2 solid lines of
thistle from Denholm,Sk to Meadow Lake Sask.
Not a peep out of the farmers. Carlton Trail
Railroad.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:57
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The good news pars is that you won't find those chemical resistant weeds one bit harder to control;than the abundant weeds you now doubt have to contend with.
Now if organic producers harbor the thought that chemical resistant superweeds are a threat to organic farmers; then you really haven't opened your mind to anything that confirms what you think you already know.
And that bullshit about not insulting your customers. Anyone who can't stand hearing another side of a story is a total lost cause; is no long term customer; and in constant need of a feeding their fickle needs and preferences. Let them feed themselves. And if you can't do it without Roundup residues; then everything that is peddled (including 50% of organic tested foodstuffs in Canada) might as well be out of the same pile/is out of the same pile.
There....
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 19:57
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The good news pars is that you won't find those chemical resistant weeds one bit harder to control;than the abundant weeds you now doubt have to contend with.
Now if organic producers harbor the thought that chemical resistant superweeds are a threat to organic farmers; then you really haven't opened your mind to anything that confirms what you think you already know.
And that bullshit about not insulting your customers. Anyone who can't stand hearing another side of a story is a total lost cause; is no long term customer; and in constant need of a feeding their fickle needs and preferences. Let them feed themselves. And if you can't do it without Roundup residues; then everything that is peddled (including 50% of organic tested foodstuffs in Canada) might as well be out of the same pile/is out of the same pile.
There....
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 20:22
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Assuming the ban on 53 agricultural chemicals was instituted last September in El Salvador; let the people who know nothing enlighten the world as to how kidney disease has been totally contained; how not one more agricultural worker will ever die in El Salvador; and how we can now ignore heat stress; heavy metal contamination and silica exposure and a host of contributing factors to sickness and illnesses; for ever more.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 21:17
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Six million people in El Salvador didn't make any decision on anything. I'm also damn sure they aren't signiicant customers of any sector in Canada; and those residents are just likely being lead by zealots taking advantage of an apparently serious disease outbreak with totally undiagnosed causes.
Just like would be taken advantage of in any other part of the world by totally equally unscrupulous people.
Now show the anecdotal data to bring this type of hysteria to our necks of the woods. Oh! I didn't forget your headlines; including the El Salvador link.
But remember that 50% pesticide residue that CFIA found in all organically labelled food. That one is very very hard to explain to those diehard consumers. Do they not ask questions...and how do you sugarcoat a 50% fraud rating.
I'm fully fed up with hypocricy. Maybe others aren't; but that just demonstrates what they will put up with.....until they get some other alternatives lined up.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 21:19
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My, my, oneoff, you sound as if your finger got
caught in the car door and you came in testy.
You say it as you think it: "let the people who
know nothing enlighten the world"
El Salvador did enlighten you, oneoff An ENTIRE
COUNTRY don't want to plant glysophate crops.
And they don't want to eat glysophate crops.
That's as plain as it gets.
And you missed the message. Wow. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 23:22
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And if those 6 million people (out of about 6 billion) are as poisoned as you would have us believe (from totally unknown causes) just like cliac disease and gluten intolerance that is so important to you in this country
then you have it all tied together by the glyphosate molecule. Well its just possible that life in this century is just a little more complicated than your wanna be simple lifestyle that in reality doesn't remotely resemble the reality of even 80 year old Saskatchewan living standards.
Just as Im' pretty sure Rob Ford has enough solid support to get elected in Toronto in the next elections; I'm also pretty sure that 80 % literacy (and no doubt less in the remoter agricultural regions of a densely populated Central American state) doesn't equate into 100% of the people having a full idea of what is causing their health problems.
And neither do I; and especially I'm sure; neither do you; or the followers of your remedies for sick people.
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oneoff posted Jan 26, 2014 23:34
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It would seem best to seek advice from healthy societies; instead of dwelling on cures and treatments supposedly found by survivors who in middle age have managed to have come to the point they feel they have their diseases under varying degrees of control...after decades of inactivity; sugar overload; various addictions and now no need for much personal exertion.
Its going to take more than organics to cure all that.
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parsley posted Jan 26, 2014 23:44
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Your pen is running away from the point, oneoff:
A nation does not wish to eat or buy what you
grow. No matter the reason.
You have lost six million people interested in
buying what you grow.
You can insult them. Berate them. Feel superior.
But they have rejected your products. Think
about that. Don't yell at organics. Or at blue
cheese. Or at the moon.
International buyers don't want to buy what you
grow.
Let that sink in for a few days. Pars
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oneoff posted Jan 27, 2014 0:43
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Then all that is left is equally pesticide contaminated foodstuffs.
And that will have to be fraudulently peddled.
Think about that for the rest of your farming career. Except you only currently have enough for a 2% share.
Tell the world where those facts are in error.
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oneoff posted Jan 27, 2014 0:45
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The end of a complete waste of thoughts . I promise
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wd9 posted Jan 27, 2014 1:05
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6 million people did not say anything.
Makes me wonder what you are saying in
Ottawa considering what you post.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 9:35
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Parsley, 6 million people didn't say
no. A sub committed of a dozen probably
made the decision while hundreds of
thousands of "customers" go hungry
because of decades of poor policy.
You certainly do have your finger on the
pulse of the consumer and you and your
amigos know what buttons to push. What i
don't get is the constant need to wack
conventional farming on the shins.
There is one contradiction about you
that continues to baffle me...you claim
to be a proponent of choice yet you
applaud GOVERNMENTS for legislating
certain food grains out of the market???
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 11:35
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Choice? El salvador made their own choice. Not
I. Nor should I even contemplate choosing for
them.
I would suggest that you absorb the message El
Salvador sent to Monsanto.
It was a sharp bitch-slap.
if you are not in agreement with El Salvadorans,
gather up your "I Love Pesticides" crew, pack a
down-home speech about how third world
dummies need to listen to experts, and get
Monsanto to fund your educational exercise.
Ill look gorward to you posting a picture the
welcoming committee on Agriville. Pars
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 11:43
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A government made a choice,
not the people.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 16:40
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El Salvador is a Republic. They have a
constitution. They have a democratic and
representative legislature. And a Supreme Court.
They elected their government from a choice of
six parties.
So, ado, because people elected their
government, that government makes decisions in
their interest. That's the way it works.
If Monsanto is unhappy with a democratic
country's decision to turf out glysophate by
legislation, they will simply have to accept that a
government elected by its' citizens, have every
right to do so.
But, journey there, by all means, ado, with
biotech's Ron Doering's speech in hand, and tell
El Salvadorans how scientifically illiterate they
are; that way you'll stay on Biotech's message to
the dimwits in society. Parsley
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Hopperbin posted Jan 27, 2014 17:02
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Parsley in all fairness do organic growers use this BT. And also if they do, it does actually wash off and does not enter inside the plant according to the organic industry correct. Monsanto actually puts the BT inside every part of the plant making it part of the consumable. And looks like because it was Monsanto that done it is very bad. Monsanto needs a name change.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 17:30
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Parsley,
Extending your logic would means that
you supported Trudeau 's National energy
program, or Chretien 's long gun
registry, bennetes CWB, mulroney's gst,
pick your policy. Politics is all about
making sure that the balance is
maintained between supporters of an
issue those who don't care or are not
engaged vs those that oppose the policy.
Further investigation of this topic will
likely lead to a large don't know or
don't care segment. As per usual you are
being over dramatic and associating the
actions of a government with the
sentiment of an entire nation. Though
the end result is the same the
dissension is very different.
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wd9 posted Jan 27, 2014 17:38
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Anything to sell organics eh Pars? The
real story, producing chemicals and
dumping by-products in poor agro areas
causing heavy metal death and
destruction just so you can enjoy that
shiny new iphone without waste in your
own backyard.
It's called corporate transference of
risk.
Didn't think you were that uninformed,
but never am disappointed by how much.
So in the mean time the government is
'working' on a solution by deflecting to
a more religious passionate issue where
science doesn't matter. Brilliant, but
oh the suffering of human lives. Not
that you would care tho obviously.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 17:46
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You can continue to argue that you don't agree
with El Salvador's political decision. My point is
they made it a decision you don't like.
Too bad.
And you can continue to insult 6 Million
consumers in that country. Good luck.
And you can try to blame it on organics.
Or your pet cat.
Glysophate got booted out of El Salvador.
So, either tell them, OR go find a goat to beat
the hell out of.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 17:57
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Dont worry about me sending organics to El
Salvador.
But really worry about El Salvadorans marketing
their grains to Canadian consumers.
And that is the best advice you're going to get
today from a fellow farmer.
Canadians substitute countless other grains for
wheat, every day in their shopping carts. And it's
a growing trend. Quinoi, amaranth, ancient
grains, rice, etc.
Houston, there's a problem.
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ado089 posted Jan 27, 2014 18:09
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I believe that we were questioning the
motives and wisdom of the policy makers
not the 6 million consumers.
The end result is the same, you are
right.
I find the world we live in today
fascinating. A longing for nostalgia
that is turning back the last 3
generations of food and health progress.
Between the anti vacer's, organic folks,
ect it's only a matter of time before we
fall back to being at the whim of
starvation and pestilence.
Parsley, how many of your parents or
grand parents siblings didn't live past
childhood?
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mbdog posted Jan 27, 2014 19:39
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Pars...your answer is the democratic system spoke for 6 million people??? That's it? That's pretty thin and insulting.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 23:21
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"It essentially means that six million more people
don't want Roundup Crops."
That was my initial reaction to Monsanto's latest
fiasco. And still is.
The negative PR alone, with a group of ag
workers sicjk with cancer, will cause every El
Salvadoran to grimace every time the M word is
mentioned.
Otoh, Monsanto's "I love pesticides" trained
selfies want to change the convo to 'just a few
guys' in El Salvador legislated banking
glysophate.
Nuh Nuh.
Cancer is an epidemic, and right now, those
cancer-victims and families are looking for the
cause. And rightly or wrongly, they happen to be
eying up glysophate. And rightly or wrongly,
Monsanto is despised throughout the world.
And don't shoot the messenger. Pars.
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parsley posted Jan 27, 2014 23:25
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That should read.... Banning glysophate. Not
banking.
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oneoff posted Jan 28, 2014 0:16
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Let me see:
Purveyor of outright unsubstantiated lies
Symptoms of "Ambulance chaser"
Not able to entertain any thought that does not confirm that which is already known as fact.
Can not admit even fundamental errors that have no basis in logic.
Refuse to hold themselves to same standards that are demanded of those publically despised. (eg. guilty of same pesticide residues in own peddled products products and yet hold others products up as being not fit for consumption.
Promoting Paranoia without any scientific basis what so ever.
Deceitful propaganda distributed as absolute truth.
Never will admit points which can not be refuted with other than opinion and firmly held belief.
Interested in accumulating all mighty dollars; but show no concern for other than an affluent clientele.
Show no concern whatsoever for mankind outside their customer base.
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oneoff posted Jan 28, 2014 0:30
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Encourage jumping on bandwagon even though only able to supply 2% of market with 50% adulterated pesticide residue containing produce.
Above industry hasn't apparently cleaned up this major problem during last two year period. (CFIA data reported by media). Consumers obviously being taking for an expensive ride; and it is far from clear if this deception is affecting anyone's health in any way.
Obviously a whole movement should like to believe that they are paying for and choosing something different; but in practice; there is no difference except in the sales pitch.
Weak industry response is that "organics remains the healthiest alternative to .......
Etc. etc.
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wd9 posted Jan 28, 2014 1:41
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Its not Monsanto, its not even about GMO
crops, its the banning of 53 chemicals
because the misguided few feel it will
stop heavy metal poisoning.
Groups like the organic industry are
taking the real story, twisting it into
El Salvador doesn't want GMO crops.
Pile of horse crap. Lies and spin. The
organic industry is a sham. The CFIA
easily proved it.
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mbdog posted Jan 28, 2014 9:08
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Pars...I am no fan of Monsanto nor am I defending or promoting any agriculture practice, but you cannot slam them and ignore the fact that people are living longer and healthier lives, and generally have a better quality of life because of modern agriculture. You can if you like I guess...but you're certainly not immune from critique. I think if people knew the truth about what modern agriculture provides them, the organic industry loses every time...especially if the people were actually allowed to vote on it specifically. Maybe El Salvador should try that.
My experience with the messengers has been that most have lead a life of privilege, afforded to them by modern agriculture. A lot of them are in politics, government and media.
I'm not shooting the messenger, just trying to keep it fair and balanced.
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 9:59
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A quote from the website:
http://www.isis.org.uk/Why_Glyphosate_Should_b
e_Banned.php
States:
"Brazil has recently proposed a new bill that will
ban many environmental toxins including
glyphosate [106]. "
Comment was made in 2012 it seems.
It will be interesting to see if the the bill banning
glysophate in El Salvador will further spur Brazil
as well as other South American countries to do
the same.
There is much passion on both sides of the issue;
after all, food impacts every human being. and it
will become more viscious as Monsanto
continues to mount defensive actions.
Organics is a piddly actor in the scene playing
out. We're the water-boys. Consumers are the
world-wide cast. And growing. They are who you
should be addressing, mb
I'll read some of the links from the above
webpage in the dental office this morning.
Reminds me of tobacco company tactics. Pars
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wd9 posted Jan 28, 2014 10:17
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Not a single credible news agency twists
the story the way you have Pars. Only the
organic groups headline mill pumping out
propaganda.
Brazil will never stop using glyphosate
on RR beans, corn, cotton.
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 10:42
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The most difficult battle for those who are paid to
say what they say, is against those say what they
believe in, and stand behind behind it.
Slick paid-for PR campaigns vs consumer
passion in world-wide kitchens. Quite the
phenomena, I find. Pars
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parsley posted Jan 28, 2014 10:50
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Perhaps I should check on the glysophate
legislation in El Salvador with a dear friend who
has his own TV show in South America. He
highlights current events. And is fluent in many
languages. Just to make sure it's actual
legislation. And ask him to air an investigative
report. He'd appreciate a tip from Canada.I can
get motivated. Pars
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charliep posted Jan 28, 2014 11:15
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Parsley,
So you believe that farmers social license to use glyphosate should be removed? El Salvador can do as it chooses - their decision doesn't impact world markets. Brazil is quite another matter given their importance in world soybean markets. When I look at the numbers, technology has supported the growth in consumption.
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