CWB wants to import CHEAP EU Feed Grain?

[parsley]

flatbroke,

That should read Grain Matters, not Grainews. The CWB publishes Grain Matters. Sorry for the error.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Flatbroke,

Whose Screenings were these to begin with? Were they not our, and didn't we have to pay to have them cleaned out and shipped to port position on CWB grains???

Where is the CWB on this issue, why are they allowing us to be ripped off?

I wrote on Topic; Screenings How should we set the Combine about the CWB/Elevator Co. scheme to get our money, so don't paint me with that brush.

Infact Flatbroke, I could accuse you of wanting me to be ripped off because the CWB monopoly stops competition, and allows grain handlers and millers to steal from us as was found to be the case in Ontario;

"Meanwhile, Ontario millers have complained that the move away from the single desk wheat board model is a bad move creating a dysfunctional market. They say a dual system creates chaos. A return to a single desk seller would be a better option.

Foster just smiles.

"The millers had a good deal under the old system, guaranteed volume at a locked in price and they paid only when they ground the wheat," he said.

"A market system will force them to bid and sometimes pay more and buy when we want to sell. It is, after all, the wheat producers' marketing board and not the millers' marketing board."

Could one of the reasons we are "flatbroke" the CWB??????

[chaffmeister]

I approach this issue of the CWB's interest in "imports" of foreign grain or "re-imports" of screenings from a different perspective.

1. I believe the CWB needs to be aware of the issue of potential imports of foreign grain, just as it needs to be fully aware of what competitive values are for competing grains (Australian wheat, for example). Whatever may impact the price of grain in Western Canada is fair game for the CWB analysts to be "on top of". To have it any other way would be mean the CWB wasn't doing its job (whether you WANT it to do this job is another issue.) Let's be realistic - if the CWB made a serious mistake because it was unaware of some market factor, it would be soundly criticized for it (by all of us). On the other hand, I can't criticize the CWB for knowing about potential imported values; I will criticize it for NOT knowing.

2. I believe there is no need for the CWB to be involved in any movement of screenings or imported grain whatsoever. There is nothing that I am aware of that the CWB could bring to the table that the grain trade and railroads can't accomplish. (If you don't like the CWB taking money out the pool accounts to pay to administer non-designated area export permits, how would you feel if it takes money out of the pool to administer imports?)

3. The CWB has in excess of 20,000 tonnes of feed barley in the grain hamding system - left overs from last year. What WOULD make sense is for the CWB to sell this feed barley into the domestic feed market; the CWB should not carry over any feed barley at July 31, 2003. If some of this barley is in terminal positions (say, Vancouver), then the CWB could be involved in getting it back to the prairies where it is needed. (It doesn't NEED to be involved, but it could be.) Beyond this though, the CWB should not be involved in any "back-hauls" or "coordination" of grains being IMPORTED into western Canada.

I asked the question elsewhere but I'll ask it here:

What happens if the CWB has no feed barley receipts this year (in other words, NO pool)? Where would the revenue from selling the CWB inventory go? Who would get it? (Not to mention the issue of the $8 million in interest that is supposed to go into the "non-existant" feed barley pool.)

[AdamSmith]

Rumour is that the business has already been done. 58,000t of feed wheat out of eastern Europe.

In principle I have no problem with this grain coming into western Canada, but what I do have problems with is,
1) This is just one more example of the CWB overreaching into areas which it ought not to be.

2)Grain farmers are paying the costs associated with facilitating this activity which will have a dampening effect on feed grain prices. A double whammy on those of us who have grown a crop this year.

3) The CWB and it's current Board of Directors has again demonstrated that profitable returns to the grain farmers of western Canada IS NOT their main focus.


The 5 incumbent directors need to be defeated this fall and directors who have their priorities straight must take the reigns of power at the CWB.

A political commentator, who's name I won't mention, is always saying: DO NOT JUDGE THEM BY THEIR WORDS, JUDGE THEM BY THEIR ACTIONS.

Should farmers this fall pass judgment on the incumbent directors records and judge them by their action and ignore their words. Come this time next year the CWB will be a vastly different institution.

flatbroke you refer to the Ontario farmers figuring out how to work together. Well your right, they elect farmers into positions of influence who do try to accomodate new approches and who will not dismiss out of hand the opinions of a majority of farmers. The OWPMB does not have an adversarial attitude like our current CWB board of directors.

Change the directors and you'll be amazed how attitudes on the prairies will improve.

[charliep]

Just seeking clarity. This type of business has been done into eastern Canada but not the west.

My research indicates one company is doing the math on feed barley from eastern Europe and the numbers are close to making business possible (feed wheat wouldn't be that far off). There are a number of hoops to jump through on the phyto sanitary side and CFIA/other regulatory agency rules - may not be doable from this side because of these issues. This busy is commercial without CWB involvement.

[chaffmeister]

For what it's worth - can confirm charlie's comments. Doesn't work to the west (on price) but two cargoes have been done into eastern Canada. The trader who did the business says he probably won't do it again because of the food safety hoops (CFIA) they had to satisfy.

[charliep]

Further to this, I heard a quote of about US $90/t for eastern European wheat delivered CIF (delivered to Canadian port) St. Lawrence. The equates to about Cdn $140/t. That leaves about $40 to $50/t to get unloaded and shipped west.

[flatbroke]

Jeez, maybe you're right! The CWB has made me broke! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! And here all this time I thought my problems were due to ongoing drought, rising freight, fuel, fertilizer, chemical, parts, and machinery prices, foreign subsidies, apathetic government, disappearing elevators and rail lines, grasshoppers, leafhoppers, aphids, flea beetles, environmentalists, Liberals, and hemorrhoids, not nessesarily in that order! But I've now seen the light! As soon as we rid ourselves of the Wheat Board, all will be sweetness and light. I bet the dairy guys will also want to crawl from under their oppressive board when they see us basking in our riches!

[ianben]

I am sure if you go to Black sea with $ you can buy grain and get it delivered at below current prices in Alberta.
I am told once grain is on a boat the difference in price per tonne is very little to any port in the world.
So what would be the price delivered Vancouver?
Like flatbroke I think some people blame the CWB for the whole problem without giving them any credit in an immpossible situation.
How are they supposed to get a premium in the market?
Good to hear a different point of view flatbroke.

I say again our prices in the UK are being fixed by Black sea prices.

With or without the CWB will it be any different in Alberta.

Will, like the French, your government protect you with rules and regulations about food safety.

Even then that lowest priced grain will always fix your premium.

[parsley]

flatbroke,

Would you agree that the Canadian Wheat Board has misled farmers about the PRO? Yes or no.

Would you agree that if "farmers are running the CWB", then farmers had better make sure it doesn't get run like Enron? Yes or no.

You sarcastic-offed the question flatbroke.....so I'll ask it in a different way......do you think farmers should close their eyes and blindly accept that the CWB says "all CWB PRO's are based on confirmed sales and projected sales prices.", when obviously this is a lie.


Do you think the CWB Directors should own up when they say that they didn't break their Code of Conduct when obviously they did by

1. Sending an appointee and
2. Influencing staff by going with them

Do you think the CWB should be called to task for telling farmers that licenses cannot be issued unless there is a change in legislation? Another obvious lie.

flatbroke, do you want accountable Directors and staff or do you want to blindly close your eyes and go la la la simply because the CWB represents pooling and compulsion and these characteristics are the cornerstones of your political philosophy?

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Flatbroke;

I wrote;
"Could one of the reasons we are "flatbroke" the CWB??????"

Please note the "ONE".

Besides, your name was so inviting, I couldn't resist the literary license...

But, we are here to learn, not to pick on each other, SORRY, that wasn't very nice!

I would truly appreciate the opportunity to help make the CWB more accountable, and I believe these discussions are productive in doing this... the August 9 PRO is proof...

NOW, hopefully Flatbroke, you would allow me to make my own mistakes/good decisions... in a marketplace that is created by humans (therefore is not perfect or forgiving)cause at least then I can't blame you, and you can't blame me for errors we are ourselves responsible for.

The most important reason to hold the CWB accountble for however is deception.

I believe western Canadian farmers deserve much better information from their own CWB/federal government than the spin doctoring the CWB has forced "designated area" grain producers to swallow...

And of course, the biggest spin of them all is that "Designated Area" farmers are too stupid to know when to sell their own grain, that only the CWB knows when the "right" time to sell is... through a secret monopoly... so we can't even tell what they really did, other than in hindsight we seem to come up short many years in income from wheat and barley the CWB handles.

The CWB alone is responsible for the bad image, cause they have admitted many times that they could allow marketing choice, through the issueing of non-discriminatory no-cost export licenses (Like they feel obligated to for the rest of Canada) and only market grain that is offered to them as section 32 of the CWB Act states.

If the CWB was responsible for setting a fair and reasonable price relative to our risk and costs, then a monopoly could be justified, but when the CWB only is marketing 10% of the traded milling wheat in the world, and "none" of the barley (the way they handle BARLEY can't be called marketing) the monopoly marketing power they themselves have created is only being used against us and them...

Flatbroke, have you ever used the goodguy badguy principal in negotiations?

I am marketing, either buying or selling something for my farm.

When someone wants to push me into a snap decision, I tell the person pressuring me I must go back to my partner; whoever I ask and value advise from, and actually get a second opinion.

The CWB NEEDS our permission to sell our grain, because the people at the CWB are human and can make mistakes and bad decisions, especially when they are dealing with probably the best salespeople on earth, the negotiators buying our grain from the CWB.

It would be only proper for the CWB to come back to us, the grain producer, and actually find out if we are willing to sell at the price the top negotiator buying our grain has offered...

Then the actual people who have the most at heart and at stake would have meaningful input into when sales SHOULD be transacted, and if they will commit to supplying the sale.

And that would be a good thing,
a fair thing, and the least we should expect in an honourable trustworthy marketing system, wouldn't it Flatbroke?

[charliep]

Ianben

Vancouver/Prince Rupert have no ship unloading facilities. There are self unloading ships. I am not so sure what Portland/Seattle have for facilities.

A interesting note is that the US will not allow eastern Europe/Former Soviet Union because of phyto sanitary rules (mainly issues around disease but issues around new weeds, pests, etc. are also there). I don't know how this grain has been brought into eastern Canada in the past but these issues would come up in spades on the prairies. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency would have to go through rigorous tests to make sure we don't bring in anything we don't want.

How does Europe handle phyto sanitary on this grain? Are cargoes required to be fumigated? Is it an issue?

[jensend]

Flatbroke:
If the dairy board operated like the CWB they would be flatbroke too. There is no similarity between the CWB and the dairy or poultry boards in how they carry out their mandate for the producers.

[ianben]

Charlie
Thought that might be the case but if the price was right bet it wouldn't take long for the grain traders to find a way!
Not much Black sea wheat being used in UK,not sure on hygene standards,However traders quote a price it can be delivered,I my case dock side Liverpool,
then give a premium their customer is prepared to pay for home produced.

I understand more is being used in Italy and Spain but again it just appears to drag the market lower and lower with no-one prefering to buy it and them wanting $ buyers.

[AdamSmith]

flatbroke, that’s quite a list of problems. It sounds like you have the rural crisis hotline on speed-dial.

Drought, environmentalists, Liberals and foreign subsidies are scourges which we farmers have no control over, so there’s no point in losing sleep over them.

grasshoppers, leafhoppers, aphids, flea beetles and apathetic governments are things that we have limited ability to control but to get reasonable control the cost are enormous.

Raising freight, fuel, fertilizer, chemicals, parts, machinery prices, disappearing elevators and rail lines are all functions of a marketplace in which you as a consumer of those goods and services are free to use , limit your use by finding alternatives or not use at all. So you as an individual do have control over those problems to a great degree.

Now the only problem that you site which comes closest to today’s single desk CWB is hemorrhoids. As they are both a huge pain in the ass and they’re generally a result of prolonged sitting and the failure to relieve. One being a bodily function, the other being farmer directors.