Water,water

[grassfarmer]

I think there are two issues here - energy use and emissions. North America comes out as the energy hog of the world and you just can't deny the figures on that.

Per capita energy consumption in some major countries expressed as tonnes of oil equivalent.
Canada 7.6T
USA 7.3T
Germany 4T
Japan 3.7T
China 1.8T
India 0.6T

Per capita carbon dioxide emissions also in tonnes.
Canada 15.3T
US 17.2T
Germany 9.6T
Japan 9.5T
China 7.2T
India 1.7T

Should note that topping the emission stakes generally are the oil rich gulf states - Qatar at a staggering 44T. US and Canada are 12th and 14 respectively.

[stonepicker]

Mount. pinatubo eruption. Weather change doesn't get any quicker than that.

[farmaholic]

I stand by my statement regarding "seasonal" Ag equipment. But I find it hard to believe that what took untold years to store, energy in the form of coal, petroleum, wood, natural gas, and at the rate it is being released(burned) today that "we" aren't having some effect. Whether or not we are or aren't having the effect we think we are is what is up for debate.

[stonepicker]

David suzuki also gets funding from oil companies, obviously that makes his work false and irrelevant too.

[bluefargo]

I have heard Tim Ball on a few occasions although not recently. I always felt better when I left. His "Don't worry be happy" message used to work for me. It's just sunspots. Don't worry. However in the intervening years the evidence of human effect has simply become too overwhelming.
I don't know if Tim Ball is still on the speaking circuit or not.

[dmlfarmer]

stonepicker. I totally agree that Mt Pinatubo caused climate change. However Pinatubo only released about 0.05Gt of CO2. Man releases roughly 36Gt of CO2 every year according to USGS or about 700 times what Pinatubo released. If you are so sure Pinatubo causes climate change, how can man not be having an effect? http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

[fjlip]

With volcanoes, it's NOT CO2, it's the particles high up in the atmosphere that cause a slight temp drop that translate into wetter cooler around the globe, "year without summer". The CO2 debate is still not proven. It increases after temps increase NOT before.

[blackpowder]

Of course we are all in the community of man and therefore must do our part. Had no intent to make personal. Of course we all on here are filthy rich compared to those countries mentioned. You will hardly see a hungry man protesting for the environment unless it meansfood today.
The "finger" is always pointed our way.
If you want to follow the money, dig deep into the cash source for some of these foreign enviro groups against Ft.Mac.
The richest governments with the poorest people are gleeful at our infighting and indecision while they continue huge profits. And in none of those countries democracy as we know it exists.
30 million people in sub arctic region just might burn more fuel than a billion in the jungle.
Lets all do our part by doing our own diligence onthe causes wr follow. The stats we quote. The real costs of the policies we support.
Protecting the environment is sensible.
Jumping into the undercurrent of a " no growth economy" theory by accepting all the guilt for what we have only plays into the motives of other governments who only have one theory. Growth for them.

[Braveheart]

There will never be consensus on this subject. This or that side neither can definitively back up what they say.

What my issue is regards the use of climate change scare to overtax, to attack the corporate world, to suck uncountable dollars from the middle class of western society, and to basically try to destroy our way of life.

[Braveheart]

Grassfarmer, can Canada really be compared to India re energy consumption?

I know I personally consumed a lot of energy last winter. But it was long and frickin cold! I've never been, but I'm sure I could sleepin the street in India.

[dmlfarmer]

fjlip Yes, volcano do cool the earth because of sulfate particles in the upper atmosphere. No argument. I was simply responding to Bravehearts claim that they put out more C02 than humans. That statement has been scientifically discredited and I get upset when persons make claims that sound right but are totally wrong, be it the hockey stick graft for climate change or the volcano myth against climate change. Spreading myths is what prevents us from ever addressing the real problem (if there even is one) and finding solutions.

[Braveheart]

I'll stand by the volcano theory. It makes sense.

So what about China and India? Heavy emitters. Our lives get overtaxed and restricted and those countries are not scrubbing, reducing, or taking any steps to be better enviro citizens.

[grassfarmer]

Braveheart, I agree India doesn't need as much energy consumption for heat as Canada. How about comparing Canada to the Ukraine or Poland which have a more similar climate? Canada 7.6T versus Ukraine 2.8T or Poland 2.6T ??

Sorry but we are not in a position to preach about how clean we are.

[Braveheart]

We're not clean. Just cold. Poland and Ukraine likely shiver. I'm sure they don't leave their Duramaxes idling at the curling rink for 6 or 8 hrs.

Please understand me personally. We recycle everything we can. We lower thermostats. No idle. Do zero till. Don't take out trees unless we plant more somewhere. We try hard to reduce/reuse.

I raise my voice because I dont like bending theories to fit anti corporate, anti capitalism agendas. It needlessly hurts middle class families trying to get by. They can ill afford more taxes or higher gas prices or heating costs.

Envriro bullies are still bullies.

[farmaholic]

Does Ukraine or Poland's economies and lifestyles/affluence even allow them to be as heavy emitters as North Americans?