maybe its been broken for ever but was itbnot desinged for farmers

[bucket]

The "families" marketing reps sent emails to farmers to beg the government for movement and then still took a buck for basis.
I am not defending the railways but their rates are still only a buck a bushel moose jaw to Vancouver.

So where does the rest of the money go?

There is no risk when you are buying at 5 bucks a bushel, have set freight rate, and selling for over 10 off the coast.

[Braveheart]

Hahaha. My moniker was selected because of family names, not the movie.

From early farming days farmers were suspicious of the commodity exchange. Called it a den of thieves. There were meetings in church basements denouncing the robber barons that were "controlling" it. The comments then, be it 1920, 27, 35, pick a year, were EXACTLY the same as the comments here. Comments that were ill informed, from people that didn't take the time to understand how exchanges worked or, who hadn't taken marketing opportunities when presented and then looked for someone else to blame.

The market is too big for "families" or anyone else to control. If you don't like the "families" deal with someone else. By the way, who are these "families" you're talking about?

[Braveheart]

Jdwerker, what is this largely closed system? The only thing closed must be your mind because since the CWB monopoly is gone I see no barriers outside of imagination.

[bucket]

The "familes" are Parrish, heimbecker, paterson, Richardson. All canadian. Then you can add in cargill, dreyfus etc,

The canadian families won't use the canadian futures market - why should I?

The more I hear of how the open market is to work by people that say they know how it works, the more uncomfortable I feel.

The organization that sings like a meadow lark sbout the open market and has the ear of Ritz is doing no favours for western Canadian farmers.

What pisses me off is that the families got farmers to do the heavy lifting against the railways and they continue to reward themselves.

There is a short crop coming, let's see how that works out for them.

Although the guys that buy into prepricing a crop that isn't in the bin may end up finally rewarding those that do. And maybe that's the way the market works.

I still think the canadian market is ****ed when no one will price durum off a Canadian market.

But a crop has to move and have transparency to it, to make the market work properly.

We don't have the reporting to make it work here and the ag minister has no competence to implement it here like the USDA does it in the states.

Big problems. Ignore them and all you have is a ponzi scheme run by the "families". They just keep pulling in the little fish like peasants.

[Hopalong]

Sometimes think about the farmers who went before us, farmed the same land and were so dissatisfied with the "system" in 1927.
Have seen a big change in my own lifetime in farmer attitude.
Only a few now speak out in favour of revolutionary change.
With increase in size and business orientation of farms, do not think a return to prairie pools and union type activity will happen.
More likely, we will continue to work together in commissions and associations but even that may not last.

[bucket]

The problems with commissions and associations is they wander. You can already see the rift between the wcwga and the SWDC because of age old battles.

And some are too ****ing stupid to set their opinions aside for the greater good of farmers in general. The story has been written already.

Some feel because they were born into wealth it gives them the knowledge of a grand poohbah. But they haven't had enough sense to look down the road 25 years to see what happens. I have watched a consolidation of an area in the 70s. Its happening again and not for the better.

Others have baggage and an attitude that they can't modify that allows for no compromises - that doesn't help either.

Apas was supposed to work - it hasn't. They just muddle along. No public comments.

A giant mindset change would be needed to reintroduce the pools. But there would be success for s modified idea of that.

The pools were a good example of wealthy inbred kids being influenced by snake oil salesmen. Think about it.

[Braveheart]

More on this family bs. I know Bill Parrish. He's one of the nicest and most honest persons you'll meet. Andrew Paterson and my personality don't jive. Hartley Richardson doesn't involve himself in the business. He leaves it to hard nosed businessman Curt Vossen. They are all in business to look after, wait for it, their business. They aren't running the jdwerks Benevolent Society.

It really comes down to paradigms. I see input suppliers and grain merchants as our partners in what we do. If we become unhappy with a partner we find a new one. If you have an us vs. them paradigm, you are setting yourself up for bitterness and jealous feelings that are destructive to business and frankly, to life.

[Hopalong]

Agree, more of us see ourselves as part of a value chain.
Many early supporters of pools saw them as answers to open market and transportation issues.
For those who continue to farm our land, hope they see can themselves as a link in a value chain rather than an adversary to other links.

[bucket]

Its supposed to be symbiotic relationship. As cotton has said kill the host and the parasites die.

You have to decide who the host is.

I know some great salesman that are nice to deal with until the problems arise.

I doubt any of the families give a shit about your farm when it comes to their business.

But keep the rose colored glasses on and tell us how the story ends. The story had been written already.

Sounds like they have one on the line and they are reeling him in...

When you talk to your "family" friends do they ask about your operation in a friendly manner or is that their way of business consulting with you - your services and info are free.

[Braveheart]

Our experience is they do in fact ask in a genuine nice way how things are going. Bottom line: if our business doesn't do well, their business doesn't do well.

[bucket]

Braveheart

So its good for your partners to make up things like a mythical fertilizer shortage and a 5 dollar basis between here and the coast.

And then because they are the nicest guys you will ever meet, because they make about 100 grand on every average sized farm, these are the guys you want to partner with.

The families are currently in the process of downloading storage costs to farmers and guys are being told they can make storage revenue in a dysfunctional market with no movement.

Hats off to your buddy bill Parrish, I would bet you even buy the cocktails.

[bucket]

Braveheart


You ever ask Parrish why as a partner, the farmer doesn't get more value for his grain.

International wheat prices are not changed too much.

How does taking more from a farmer help the farmer. I get how it helps his business.

Hook line and sinker is all I can think of.

[bucket]

And maybe ask him why the families are not trading in Winnipeg. Really curious as to his response.

[Braveheart]

P &H not a partner. They're not anywhere close to me.

I know the grain trade guys from a previous life.

[Braveheart]

The grain cos trade canola on ICE. Sure there are some back to back flat transactions. But risk is managed via ICE for most sales.

The grain cos trade hrsw on Mpls.