Nicotinoids and bees

[littledoggie]

I heard on the radio one day a discussion about bee attracting flowering plants being sold that have been grown using nicotinoids. They made it sound like the insecticide effect would carry over to the next year. And beyond??? I don't know.

I got to thinking about this (as we do when going around and around in a tractor) and wondered about the effect that treated seed (like alfalfa) would have on bees if any. Most seed is treated now with an insecticide. Is the insecticide a nicotinoid?

[grassfarmer]

I think the answer is yes.

Here is some more comprehensive information on the issue:

http://www.nfu.ca/story/nfu-submission-action-protect-bees-exposure-neonicotinoid-pesticides

[TOM4CWB]

We have many bees working on fields of Canola. The problem becomes if when seeding the drill is loaded next to the hives... they become attracted to the dust containing the seed coating with the insecticide.

So don't load seeders near hives and don't leave seed on top the ground so bees can forage the treated seed.

Our Bees and those of folks grazing on our Canola have been very productive with great honey. This is the general experience of Bee producers in western Canada.

Cheers!

[farmaholic]

I'm no entomologist but why is it the flea beetles are only controlled for apprximately two weeks yet the claim is it is having (residual ?) effects on bee hives? Is there other uses for this insecticide other than seed treatments that get buried during seeding?

[wmoebis]

Tom do you have a recommended distance from hives?
According to what I have read bees fly up to 5km.

[ado089]

This is a topic thatbhas been blown out of proportion by an industry struggling to reconcile their own poor management practices. 1) environmental neonic contamination is only a factor with singulated planters as they puff alittle each seed. Air seeders and nextgen planter don't have that issue. New polymers have also all but eliminated dusting. 2) if neonic are the cause of CCD why are the bees in Australia not affected? 3) most colonies in the USA are put under a.great deal of stress because they are loaded on a truck every 2 weeks and moved to the next crops. To bloom. Those bees can start in California and finish the season in Maine. Move cattle by truck every 2 weeks for 8 months straight and see how many you lose.

This topic is simply a great ground rod for the anti crowd.

[littledoggie]

Dust from treated seed is one thing....
But transference from treated seed to the flower is another. Is canola seed treated with a neonicotinoid?

[ado089]

Yes it is. It is in Australia too. I haven't read anything about it being in the pollen. Most blame seems to be from general environmental contamination.

[ado089]

Neonics have only been widely used since about 2004. I remember talking about CCD in a bees class in university in 2002. Since academia is usually 5-10 years behind what we see in the field this is clearly not a new problem.

[mustardman]

If Private plant breeding is the Answer then why have the likes of bayer and Monsanto not borrowed genes from Yellow mustard ?? Hairy stems makes it almost resistant . Never used treated and Never a problem. Yellow mustard seed is 70 cents per pound and bayer varieties are 12 Dollars a pound. They probably would be embarrassed to charge 12 dollars if it Didn't have the nice blue neonic colour, heh Tom ?

[Braveheart]

Ever hear of Juncea?

[grassfarmer]

Who says they aren't having bee problems in Australia?
Here is an experts opinion from way back in 2007.

http://www.buzzaboutbees.net/support-files/australianpollinatorssoc.pdf

[ado089]

Thanks grassy for causing me to waste 15 min reading that bullshit. That was 7 pages of someone worrying about a problem that night happen. Their low bee numbers are due to them exporting to the US and Europe, not higher mortality.

There's lot of reading on here.

http://entomologytoday.org/tag/colony-collapse-disorder/

[Horse]

I may be wrong but the bee man here claims a bee only lives about 3 wks so I dont think export is a problem? But keep up the chem or you will never get all the work done.

[ado089]

That's all summer hatched workers live for. It's the export of the Queens that reduces the number of potential colonies. They live 3-5 years. Will you guys please take a little time to actually learn something about bees so we can have an inelegant conversation about them.