Nicotinoids and bees

[ado089]

Thanks grassy for causing me to waste 15 min reading that bullshit. That was 7 pages of someone worrying about a problem that night happen. Their low bee numbers are due to them exporting to the US and Europe, not higher mortality.

There's lot of reading on here.

http://entomologytoday.org/tag/colony-collapse-disorder/

[Horse]

I may be wrong but the bee man here claims a bee only lives about 3 wks so I dont think export is a problem? But keep up the chem or you will never get all the work done.

[ado089]

That's all summer hatched workers live for. It's the export of the Queens that reduces the number of potential colonies. They live 3-5 years. Will you guys please take a little time to actually learn something about bees so we can have an inelegant conversation about them.

[ColevilleH2S]

"Inelegant", I'm assuming that's a spell check swap out, but it does kinda fit this thread. Made me chuckle.

[brian99]

Neonics are used as seed treatments in corn , wheat, canola and soybeans. Neonics are relatively strong insecticides used to control soil pests in the ground at or just after germination. Pest controlled include wire worm, cut worm, corn borer, corn seed root maggot, and flea beetle. These pests kill the tiny seedlings and have a direct correlation to yield. This is very different from most pests, where some level of pests, and some damage is acceptable. I don’t grow soybeans, so I cant provide info there. Only one seed treatment (Raxil WW) is available for wheat contains a neonic, and that’s used to control wireworm. Canola and corn seed treatments with neonics are more common, as the pests they control are more common. Neonics are not sprayed as a foliar on any crop I know of.

I agree with ado in that environmental contamination with planters is a minor issue. Bees don't come into corn fields, there's nothing to eat.

Neonics were first registered here in 2001, so there could be some correlation there. I heard of CCD around 2006. That doesn't indicate causation.

Around 2007 the Federal Government launched Canpolin (Canadian Pollination Initiative), a country wide initiative involving tens of millions of dollars over 5 years devoted to investigating all aspects of pollinators, both tame and wild. Hundreds of researchers were involved over that 5 years and no clear cause to CCD was determined. The thoroughness of this project and the sheer brain power nationwide leads me to believe that the problem in honeybees is multifactorial. Honeybees have tracheal mites, varoa mites, nosema, bacterial diseases including foulbrood, viral diseases including acute bee paralysis virus, black queen cell virus, cloudy wing virus, and sacbrood virus to name some. Honeybees are stressed and sick, and the industry needs a complete rethink, in my opinion.

[ado089]

The bee industry needs to wake up and realize that the way they are doing things now they are a high intensity livestock operation. Add all the transportation in to the scenario and you don't need to be an entomologist to figure out there will be issues. In Canada were bees aren't moved around as much the bee population is a lot healthier, as mentioned Australia doesn't see any of the CCD that the US and Europe see.

Neonics use did not ramp up until lindane was deregulated in 2002 or 2004.

[TOM4CWB]

ado,

As we harvest honey and overwinter bees we have been watching this closely.

My brother Colin who is the Apiarist responsible. Colin spoke to the Provincial Apiarist a number of times. Every time there is a Sudden Death hive problem in Alberta he watches it like a hawk... personal visits to the honey farm. Being suspicious of the Nicotinoids causing the problem, is always the first issue to surface... but has been ruled out as hive cleanliness and proper care (mites etc) has been the problem each time there has been a problem.

Alberta should be the centre of the problem... for the millions of acres that bees forage here each year... do not cause major issues of sudden death of our bees.

As stated the new polymer coating for Canola... (at growers cost) and care at seeding time by growers... have meant a very low risk to the bee and honey industry here is Alberta.

[ado089]

Tom, I'm glad there are some people with level heads involved. Our practices are nothing like the US or Europe. Our bees might get moved a couple times a year. In the US they start in California and finish in Maine. That much movement and mingling of of colonies is a perfect recipe for transmission of pests and disease. It's important to monitor the effects of our agricultural practices on the environment but we can't rely on the fallacy of correlation = causation. It's also important to note that most environmental contamination from seed treatment comes from planters that use aspirated singulation. Air seeders and vacuum singulation planters inject the majority of the dust into the soil. Furthermore honey bees are a non native invasive species to north America, maybe mother nature is up to something. Yes they are important but I'm more concerned about the overall population of pollinators not just one species.

[grassfarmer]

More "bullshit" for the deniers. From Health Canada:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/pest/_decisions/bee_corn-mort-abeille_mais/index-eng.php

[brian99]

I do disagree on the point that vacuum planters are the problem. Vacuum planters have been around for decades, and seed coatings have been developed around their use. Seed coatings on corn and sunflowers (and soybeans I assume) are superior to those on wheat and small grains. This is necessary because a dusty seed treatment will plug the planter plate holes. When I seed small grains, everything is coated pink. There's dust leftover in the grain boxes. With a planter, there's none of that. When I dump a bag of corn in the planter, there's nothing but seed. When I add talc (and now the new lubricity agent), it stays white. It's not picking up the seed treatment. It doesn't rub off, and it doesn't blow out.