Happy Labour Day

[Fransisco]

But, but, but what about the Liberals? Paul Martin did such a great job way back when. They'll fix it, right?

Oh? [URL="http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/19/public-sector-pay-perks-drowning-ontario-in-debt"]Like they're doing in Ontario right now?[/URL]

Oops! Never mind.

[cottonpicken]

they keep us distracted and divided with hot button social issues

the sad part is the majority of the debt is accrued interest and never did anything

the b.c thing is getting interesting

[foragefarmer]

Fransisco

Not quite sure why your providing us with your 1st link regarding American debt when were're talking about Canadian debt. Two different countries. Then you state all parties are same.

As for your second link you do the typical Fed Conservative maneuver, point fingers at everybody else and not except any responsibility for the huge mess you've created . The funniest part of all, is your link comes from Sun Media, Harper's source of news and huge supporter of him. Please stick to the the current Fed Conservatives fiscal record of the past seven years, 171 billion debt.

As for Paul Martin at least he left the Harper Cons with a 13 billion surplus when he left office. What did Harper do with that money? Did you not read the Farser Institute's Aug 2014 report? Your postings were pretty absent with regard to that tread.

[Fransisco]

ForageFarmer first off I didn't create the mess. I'm not a politician, never have been never will be.

Secondly, when it comes to debt all parties are basically the same they just disagree on how big the hole should be and how fast they need to dig it. It doesn't matter if its Canada, the US, Europe or any number of other countries. If you think Canada is somehow different you're wrong.

Thirdly, while Harper was on his spending spree every other party was constantly and consistently telling us that it wasn't enough, that he should be spending more. I actually believe that they mean it when they say these things.

So no, I am not happy about the debt or level of spending that Harper has done while he's been in power. But I have no reason to believe any of the other parties would have done any better. By their own words one can see that they probably would have done worse.

Hey look, I can see what you're trying to do here. But you're not going to have much luck moving fiscal conservatives over to another party. I think most of them have already thrown up their hands and said a pox on all of your houses I'm not voting for any of you nincompoops.

[foragefarmer]

Fransisco

For your to say you didn't create the debt mess is naive. We all us services provided by government in one way or another(health care, university,etc) some more than others. We as farmers do pay taxes and try our best to avoid them. We have also received some type of government payment through out our farming years. Whether or not it helped create the debt who knows. But in some way or other it MAY have contributed to it we can not say for sure.

As for your comment that I'm trying to convert you the fiscal conservative(true oxymoron) is the furthest from the truth I don't give one hoot who you voted for.I have never contributed to any political party. Fransisco I doubt you can say that, in fact I'd bet the farm you have.So indirectly you helped get this debt bearing Conservative Gov in power.Do you carry the Conservative membership card?

I was simply pointing out factual numbers for you about the Conservative government. Fransisco you opened the door in your earlier posts making claim that all parties are the same.

Your Quote "But, but, but what about the Liberals? Paul Martin did such a great job way back when. They'll fix it, right? " I provided you the number of 13 billion surplus. Factual number Martin was trying to fix the debt. What has your Harper done with regard to that? Oh ya your going to use the Con's speaking point "the other parties made me do it".That line is getting very old!

Fransisco read the Farser report their a lot like the Frontier Centre for Public Policy. Factual numbers

[TOM4CWB]

Forage,

How convenient it is for you to forget that during the minority governments... it was the NDP and Liberals running the show... as these 2 parties held the balance of power~ the Conservative Party of Canada was forced to increase spending or be defeated.

"Heading into its second straight term, the Conservative Party initially promised a new spirit of cooperation with the other parties to deal with the escalating economic crisis engulfing the world and Canada. The government's fiscal update, presented to the House of Commons on 27 Nov 2008, was rejected by the other parties who viewed the Conservatives' response to the emerging economic crisis as inadequate. The Liberals and NEW DEMOCRATS signed an accord to form a minority coalition government with the Bloc Québécois agreeing to not vote against the coalition on a matter of confidence for a period of two years. The idea of a Liberal-NDP coalition was immediately applauded and denounced throughout Canada, raising also the spectre of a constitutional crisis.
Panicked by this abrupt turn of events, the Conservative government asked Governor General Michaëlle Jean to prorogue Parliament. Prorogation was granted on December 4. By the time Parliament reconvened in late January 2009, the public mood had shifted strongly in support of the Conservatives, especially in English-speaking Canada. Lacking political support, and perhaps will, the Liberal Party stepped back from its coalition bid. Its leader, Stéphane Dion, resigned and was soon replaced by Michael IGNATIEFF. The Conservatives had weathered the coalition storm.
The threat caused the Conservative government to change direction on the economy, however. With the economy worsening in the United States and elsewhere, and its effects now washing across the Canadian border, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty announced the introduction of a program of economic stimulus to combat the recessionary slowdown. Termed "Canada's Economic Action Plan," the plan also soon proved a stimulus to Conservative fortunes as the government could claim credit for the mild upturn in the economy that occurred over the following two years.
In other policy areas, the Conservative government continued to advance "tough on crime" measures, increased military expenditures, and targeted tax breaks. Opposition critics condemned these policies as fiscally unsound and designed primarily to garner political support, but these concerns found little resonance with the Canadian people.
Rather, the greater concern expressed regarding the Conservative government proved to be less its policies than its manner of governance, viewed by many as authoritarian, partisan, and intensely secretive. The public's more general concerns regarding Canadian democracy were reinforced in late 2009 when Prime Minister Harper once more advised the Governor General to prorogue Parliament for the period 30 Dec 2009 until 3 Mar 2010. As stated by the government, the purpose of recessing Parliament was the XXI Olympic Winter Games, held in Vancouver, but opposition MPs argued that prorogation was in fact meant to avoid troubling questions about the treatment of Afghan detainees.
The parliamentary session that followed was short and largely uneventful. In June, however, the government made the controversial decision to make voluntary completion of the long form CENSUS. The decision was widely criticized not only by other political parties but by a wide swath of corporate, union, and non-profit groups as well as academics. The decision led to the public resignation of Statistics Canada's director.
Internationally, the Conservative government slowly moved away from its hawkish stance on Afghanistan towards a more familiar Canadian position of social and economic development. A withdrawal of Canadian combat troops from Afghanistan by June 2011 was also enacted.
The government took controversial stands on a number of international issues, such as support for Israel that some viewed as at odds with Canada's tradition as an "honest broker" in the region. The Conservative government's opposition to measures to deal with climate change and the de-funding of agencies whose family planning initiatives included the right to abortion also brought criticism. In the fall of 2010, Canada lost its bid for a seat on the United Nations' Security Council. Critics charged that this was the result of Canada being increasingly offside with many underdeveloped countries. Conservative supporters, however, claimed that Canada was standing up for firm principles and that loss of the seat was not a reflection on the government.
Partly out of fearing to cause an election, for which they were unprepared, and partly out of agreement with Conservative policies, Canada's opposition parties during the period after the 2008 election often went along or at least did not oppose the government. There was much sabre rattling, but each threat of bringing down the government soon evaporated.
By the spring of 2011, however, the Parliament was at an end. The opposition parties felt they could no longer support the government and still save face; the governing Conservatives believed that an election might at last bring them a majority. The defeat of the government's budget on 25 Mar 2011 paved the way for the election that followed."
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/conservative-party/

How soon we forget!

[cottonpicken]

Forage are you even reading what Fran is saying?

Tom,LOTS of people seen 08 coming and LOTS seen the coming monetization

https://www.agriville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1215801996

The situation is now many magnitudes worse and there is not a damn thing any politician can do about.

It is politically impossible

It is mathematically impossible.

Everyone is to blame,no one is to blame

We wanted our cake and pie and ice-cream

[Fransisco]

Hey Forage, you want facts? Paul Martin isn't running in the next election. There will be people voting who don't even know who Paul Martin was or what he did. As far as politics goes its ancient history. This time around its the substitute drama teacher with the nice hair. And he's actually got a pretty good shot at the job because you know Harpers hair sucks.

In the meantime Rome will continue to burn.

[sumdumguy]

Tom, you are alltogether too kind to this government. I agree that the ability to stay in power is contingent on their overspending, but what about policy on soft herb and bail-in. Their hardline stance is going to cost them votes and lots of them, for sure. They may get away with the bail-in slip into the budget. Third strike, dismantling all the farm programs in The West. I am not impressed, not scared to say.

[foragefarmer]

Tom (4Con's)

Nice cut and paste. I guess the PMO's, your puppet master ensures you continue to tow the party line. They certainly don't want you to develop any independent thought's of your own. Keep sending the cheques pal you may get a senate seat before the 2015 election.

Fransisco

From all your postings you sound very bitter, and are in denial that your Conservative government has turn out to be such a dud. Just tear up the membership card, stop the cheques and move on. You couldn't have seen it coming from Harper the oil company mail room clerk!!!