Organic question for Hobby etc.

[pourfarmer]

good for you, hope it works out! a good resource even though you may not need it:

http://www.organicinputs.ca/en/

[hobbyfrmr]

I am insanely pining for a Lemon Rubin. I think they would be great. The 6 meter was quoted to me at $90,000. That was a couple years ago, they were not really bringing in small units. Special order type stuff. Then I Needed 400 hp to pull the most common one. Then I tuned out.

[hobbyfrmr]

Lemkin Rubin

I think it would do a great job, more level. On a heavy clover plowdown it might take 2 passes. I bought a new kilo bilt DOW 225 disk with oil bath bearings. Excellent company, that makes a kick ace disk. Never touched it in 6 years and lots of custom work. Disadvantage is that it leaves a wavy pattern in the field. It cuts and turns over a hayfield to 85% black in one pass but it's a rough finish.

[freewheat]

Wow! Thanks for the insight. I never knew an organic thread could be so intense.

Reason for looking at organic? Because the land is available. Because I hate input bills, and saw this as an opportunity to shave it down. The money. The prices are insane for organic commodities. With good summerfallow on land that has been out of production for years, weed issues would be minimal for a few years.
Finally, because of our diversity into sheep, and the need for some hayland, I thought it may fit for us as we take out the hayland portion of the rotation every 4 or 5 years.

I am not going whole farm organic. If they deem it necessary, I am out. I would of course grow crops on the organic side that would not be grown conventionally. The fact they may expect or somehow think I would have to shift my whole farm into organic ag is IMO a show stopper.

I am looking at it as a feasible option for land coming out of hay, and maybe this one piece of long neglected land that I would like to gain back. It is a diversification idea for me.

Do they not inspect closely enough to fight off cheaters? If not, they sure as heck should.

Thanks again.

[hobbyfrmr]

There is a production audit, inputs/seed source audit, paperwork audit BOL/ traceability audit, field inspection. So just take it seriously and keep all records and documents .
Prices are not insane, they are a respectable start for the season. I like to use the motto half a crop, twice the price. Some times I do better than that . Sometimes not. You have to be prepared to abandon/ work down a field due to a wreck. Stud happens.
Once you see a payment, the thoughts of cheating and dodging will be rreplaced with, how can I do this better. The reward is addicting.
Then after a few years of cashing in big, you can can buy the biggest sprayer money can buy, the best canola seed money can buy, max fertilizer , and in 3 years give it all back to the ag supply industry!

[pourfarmer]

sorry if you misunderstood my suggestion. It wasnt my intention to suggest ways to "cheat" the system.. Just thinking of ways to make transition easier, but it sounds like they are becoming more relaxed on parallel production anyway.

[hobbyfrmr]

Some folks are very smart and likethe challenge of bending rules. Im too lazy and can't be bothered.
I have a rather twisted view on things. When I think of going back to conventional farming I think of the movie "casino" Robert deniro says " keep them playing, the more they play,the more they lose, in the end, we get it all."
It's not a real fact but some days that's just how I see it.

[farmaholic]

ado089, weren't you sparring with these guys and parsley? If you can't beat them join them. Actually there's no beating anyone, nice to see you taking an opportunity. It will be neat to compare the two methods under your own style and management.

Hobby, I'm addicted to high input farming. We spend a pile hoping to make some good money, the game if full of base hits the odd strike out and homerun and hopefully one or two grandslams during our career. Knowing when to get out is the key. I have someone here to hand the torch to, so unless he takes a different approach we're probably going to continue down the same path.

Good luck ado, I think there is lots of opportunity and potential if you want to intensely manage it, which is the key to most success stories, oh yea and a whole lot of luck in farming...:-)

[farmaholic]

ado089, I'll sell you some green peas for $11.00/bu, I hear they fix more nitrogen than those cheap yellow ones. No, really.....

[parsley]

Am pleased ado, that you have reached the stage in your life where you actually make decisions upon your need, your ability, and your willingness to take a risk. I'm not referring necessarily to organic; no, it's about the maturity to chose what you think will be good for you and your family.

Change can bring failure. Or success.But the fact that you are able to step out of your normal comfort zone, as freewheat also toys with, and are not afraid of failure, means you can take failure in your stride and simply a part of growth.
Pars

[parsley]

When we sold some of our cows and put the rest out on shares in several herds., there was a lot of pastureland to break up. We actually researched for a winter to mull the direction, lots of library work! ... Organic or conventional? Cereals or pulses? Toe in or jump in? We decided to grow organically for three years and then if profits were too slim, we'd go back to spraying ,

Never looked back. Pars

[parsley]

Freewheat
1. farmers who buy chemicals claim them as an expense on income tax. You may be asked to show your past income tax forms.

2. Neighbours are more than willing to expose cheaters.; )

3. Each certification agency has slightly different standards and requirements

4. Organics is a closely knit community. iIf you fart when you are delivery grain, several people heard and recorded it.

5. Your reputation is everything in organics. Like the guy who moves his ball when he 's golfing.... Cheaters never win. pars

[parsley]

I haven't been up writing on AV at midnight for a long while. No one else will be awake. Pars

[parsley]

Yup. Definitely awake.

[ado089]

Though I appreciate the support and encouragement my overall view of organic production remains unchanged. That said I'm not going to let ideology get in the way of expanding my business. To be honest after seeing the soil test results I may be less sold on it but I intend to give it an honest effort. My dad farms 3 of the adjoining quarters so I'll have a really good benchmark to work from. Like I said before, to me it's just another IP program to run on a portion of the farm. Not surprisingly the organic industry contacts I've made like the fact that I'm approaching this venture as a business rather a religion. That goes for for buyers and inspectors alike. I will reiterate the fact that I've never criticized farmers for making a business decision on production techniques. The dogma of the organic interest groups still drives me nuts.