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    #85
    the following excerpt I found doing some reading and helps to somewhat explain what has happened with agriculture in the last few years, though for many was already known long ago:

    "Family farms, hutterite colonies included can be large, which is the norm in rich countries, where they are getting bigger; or small, which is the norm in poorer countries, where they are getting smaller. Why the opposite trajectories? It all comes down to the number of people who want to farm.

    In places where it’s hard to make money and few jobs available, people tend to stay on the farm and work smaller pieces of land more intensively. It’s almost always possible to coax more food from a piece of land if you have enough labor, though each increase in production takes a lot more work. When there are many people, and few other opportunities, you get farms that are labor-intensive and land-saving. Every generation, farms split up between children and get smaller.

    In places where there are good jobs off the farm, fewer people end up working bigger pieces of land with labor-saving devices like machinery and chemicals. If farmers can earn more money working a job in the city, it only makes sense for them to leave the land. The farmers who stay are the ones who can figure out how to work enough land so that their incomes rise."

    It is easy to see if the trend in North America continues with increasing amounts of wealth generated off the farm that farms will no doubt get larger and hutterite colonies with birth rates dropping will also continue to expand unless the voting public intervenes to slow this process.

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      #86
      One good thing if you have debt is technically your short the canadian dollar and it's been going down,won't argue if that has been a real realized gain.

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        #87
        Farmaholic and SF3, I agree with your comments. I think the idea of "silver platter farms" is wrong headed thinking, it's what sustains multi-generational farm families. Nothing wrong with inheriting the family farm, modernizing and expanding it and passing it on to the next generation. It's only "silver platter" or a "get rich quick scheme" if you cash out or squander the resource given to you.
        If you can pass it on from generation to generation and finance retirements through retained profits that's a successful model of land ownership in my book. It's one of the reasons the Hutterites are successful - they don't sell the farm to their kids at full market full each generation.

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          #88
          Bingo we have a winner!

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            #89
            grassfarmer,

            You once made a comment comparing dairy quota values to land prices. Your were in a discussion about supply managed industries and people were ragging on you about the value of quota. You made the comment that 1) quota had value, 2) quotas value was based on profitability and 3) dairy farmers had to be a good manager to buy and subsequently pay for quota. You then made the comment that grain farmers shouldn't criticize dairy farmers for quota - land values were a grain farmers quota.

            I hope I am not misquoting you or got things wrong but I found this very interesting. We seem to assume every farmer is the same - not the case. Land will have a different value for everyone here based on their situation and this will be different than market value.

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              #90
              In order for farm land to be like quota the government would have to one day decide that all grain farmers in Canada were having to grow to large and take too much risk in order to make a profit. To correct this they would have to decide to put export subsidy of 20% on all grain products exported from Canada. Margins would increase for grain farmers and the price of land would go up. (assuming middlemen didnt take all the margin).

              Supply management in Canada is essentially a tax on certain select food products (dairy, eggs, chicken, turkey) redistributed to producers of those products. Its sad that we are choosing to tax healthy food products to benefit so few.

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                #91
                I understand that supply managed industries benefit from government regulation. Land values are market based. The comment is that quotas and land values are profit based or should be. Both are barriers to entry - not everyone can afford. Both have made farmers who have been in the business a while extremely wealthy in a net worth sense.

                On hutterites, they have an expanding memberships/family. Their business goals/plan revolves around building equity/capital so they can split their farms/establish new colonies. They have also been very creative around new/innovative ways of using their wealth/human resources in developing non farm activities such as manufacturing.

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                  #92
                  Charliep, I don't remember ever saying that land values were a grain farmers quota or some of these other comments.
                  I'm not sure what your opinion on these comments I allegedly made were and what their relevance in this discussion are. Maybe you would care to enlighten me as I'm just not following your line of thinking?

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                    #93
                    I see what you are saying Charlie and I do agree. But I think it is a poor comparison.

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                      #94
                      I can't remember the exact context and perhaps something I am imagining. Perhaps owning what I said increasing asset values (be they quota or land) are signal of profitability.

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                        #95
                        The value of land has less to do with the value of what is being produced on it and more to do with alternative investment options ie interest rates. When (if) interest rates rise the value of land will drop. Today investors are parking money in farmland. Little concern for the annual rate of return. If govt wants to slow the outside investor purchases of farmland they should raise property taxes on the land. (I'm not a proponent of that but it would IMO work.)

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                          #96
                          Nudge not all are parking money.
                          Pull titles and see who actually holds the property.
                          Funny BofM has borrowed a lot to city people to buy farm land and use their property in the city for the investment.
                          Now Canada pension fund scam that's your retirement baby.

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