Gustgd

[charliep]

Grassfarmer.

My understanding is Europe plant breeding is mostly privately funded - very few public programs. Am I wrong?

[gustgd]

Grower99 for the pulse model to work in cereals it has to have no free riders.
Read compulsory non refundable.
I think that's against the law in Alberta? Grass farmer weren't you one of the voices against the Alberta beef check off? Maybe I have you mixed up with someone else?

Don't know if it needs to be 1% of gross, Grower99 it's your idea. I'll let you sign your name and let's see if Agriville runs with it?

[bgmb]

Gust, Thanks for the reply. When I pay royalties on certified seed under the current system who gets the royalty money? Is it the seed company (canterra, FP) or is it the government?

Will there be end point royalties on current varieties like Harvest once we adopt UPOV 91? or is it one of the ones that will be de registered to make way for new ones?

[bucket]

How can you use end point royalties?

Buy new seed and call it a different old variety when you haul?

How do you police it.

End point royalties will be another check off. Registered new varieties or not.

The end game is to get another cost passed to farmers.

Obviously the 20 to 1 return on investment for research isn't true or they would be self sustaining.

[gustgd]

Minister Ritz has committed that all "old" varieties will be grandfathered in.

End point royaltya are not a given although I would see as likely. The WG are still trying to sort through and see where we should land

IMO it's the fairest way to pay. In Australia they have an EPR seed companies encourage brown bagging as it gets the best varieties out over greatest amount of acres. You pay on production so a bad crop is less payout than a great one.

deregistration is a concern that needs to be addressed. See above post

Bucket the 20:1 is a return to farmers. Not WGRF
Again it's all about value capture.
The same reason Chem companies invest in Chemistry rather than agronomy.
I'd point you to the study on website, but I'm sure you won't read it.
Www.westerngrains.ca
How do you get return for shareholders?

[bucket]

But when you de register a variety like ac barrie. Why? Because it can't have an end point royalty put on it?

Grow less to pay less?

How about guys that want the high tech stuff pay up front. Those of us neanderthals that want to continue to use what we have carry on as we normally have?

And I will read thru it.

[bgmb]

Gust, I actually think the end point royalties arent all that bad of an idea but...... Right now a vast majority of the wheat genetics we are growing are derived or bred from government investment. So why would we now start paying royalties to private companies on these genetics. A better idea would be to but those royalties back into a some sort of a self funded farmer breeding program.

[gustgd]

Bucket I'll make it easy for you.

http://westerngrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Final-WGRF-ROR-STUDY2.pdf

For the record I hate economic impact studies yet I also learned quite a while ago if you haven't done the work don't argue with someone who has.

Bgmb the royalties are not self sustaining with brown bagging.

[Braveheart]

Help me ünderstand further. Patents on most things expire. When patents expire on plants, are they proposing deregulation as a way to eliminate someone using the technology without paying. Somehow that doesn't right, especially if the variety still meets customers specs, and the breeders investment plus has been recouped.

Also, mainstream agriculture aside, we can't discount the fact that there are small "agrarian movement" type farmers. These operations need to be able to count on seeds outside of the new proposed Seed Act to be viable. Wouldn't deregistered varieties work there?

[bucket]

Gust

Thanks for the link.

Here is the thing about complaining or arguing about someone efforts. Sometimes the time and effort they put into things are not asked for or required by anyone. A make work project still can be argued if it has no justification in the first place.

As a for instance. Although some people thought wheat commissions were a good idea, even you have been on board with a major consolidation into one body.

The efforts of all these should have been put into getting government to change the legislation to make it happen as opposed to having more fractured groups.

[gustgd]

Braveheart. As I understand currently there is 18 years for a company to recoup their investment.this legistlation moves that to 20. I don't know why that's necessary, but not a hill to due on.

Varieties are then surrendered to the crown, where they become royalty free.
Again as I understand most varieties are surrendered earlier because their is a cost to maintain registration and if no ones growing.....
I've heard test one of the only "modern" varieties to go the full 18 was Barrie. Thus was because it was being sold as seed under that variety name to Europe for the Warburtens program. ( someone please correct Me if I'm wrong)

So if I'm reading your question right.

My reply is anyone can currently AND IN THE FUTURE grow any variety currently being grown and grandfathered in. iIf they have a market the govt will not stand in the way of commerce.

If someone buys a new variety coming from parentage not derived from farmers dollars, they will be subject to whatever agreement they sign.

The dollars will flow back to the breeding company they deem, be that a public/private/or 3P.

Without a revenue capture model on innovation the whole system falls apart without massive taxpayer subsidies

[bgmb]

Gust I am suggesting going to the end point system but paying the royalties into a farmer owned breeding program instead of to companies who will play games like de registering perfectly good varieties.