this seed thing is just bad ,bad bad,

[sawfly]

sorry the other thread was just too long.

just follow me on this example of the possible danger here.

1. the general consensus is that public/farmer breeding will become a thing of the past after this.
correct.

2. you end up with the 4-5 big guys in breeding (same old loveable canola breeders) doing wheat, peas, everything.


Now the scenario

a new rust/pathogen comes along. and
most likley, a fungus of some kind.
anything

(we have had them before.)

what good is our grandfathered seed now ?

Not the end of the world. right
breed resistance into a new variety.

ah but we have abandoned our public breeding. no help there .

one of the big co.s comes up with the resistance and breeds it into the crop.

big difference now ,it is not free or cheap.

it is patented.,
and you will pay every year til the end of time.

you will have to sign that you will plant 1 crop with it. , and if you did
without paying the royalty, the structure is now in place to collect royalty at any point in the system.

the company may license it to the other big seed co.s, but they will all stay in line and charge the same.
they call that competition
( we all know how that works )

this cost is now a permanent
fixture, in our cost of production,
forever .
( this bad for the entire economy of the country)

like every year til the end of time.

tell me where i am wrong here.

the patent .length is meaningless
anyway , because like canola , you only bought the right to grow one crop.

pick it apart ,explain how it will not be that way.

the short sighted policies of this govt. just blow me away.

[Hopperbin]

I am trying to rhyme that

[Hopperbin]

I am trying to rhyme that

[Braveheart]

Gerrid's points in the last thread have helped me understand more.

The one issue I'm really stuck on though is the end point royalties. I see a moral hazard where an end user requires certain specs, but designates only a variety they may have a vested interest in. If the returns were such that being in that closed loop was a benefit, fine. It didn't turn out that with Nexera so I'm doubtful.

[ColevilleH2S]

60% of producer funded SK.Pulse checkoff, goes to reasearch and development.

8% of producer funded Canola seed sales revenue goes to R&D.

Not getting the warm and fuzzies about market driven variety development because of that comparison.

[CptnObvious]

Brave, Gust is looking at this and just rolling around in the word 'innovation.' The gov't plan, as I have heard it from AAFC administrators, is to double investment in breeding using only private money. The resulting 'innovation' will most likely result in that 20:1 return Gust pointed to in his link, but as so many others in this thread have shown, there is no path for that generated wealth to get back to the farmer.
Weirdly Gust has also pointed out the roadblock to self reliance, the easier de-registration which forces farmers to buy patented seed or sell good wheat as feed, but does not seem stressed that this forces us all to support the corporate profit model.

[parsley]

Grow and store a small stock of "traditional" seed on your farm. Fresh every year so you can keep a bit of original seed that can be expanded, and you are not held hostage. #GrowingInsurance parsley.

[Hamloc]

Sawfly well put and you are correct imo. Does anybody know how many years ago the US signed Upov 91 and do they have the large investment in private wheat research that we are told we will get here?

[tweety]

Sawfly, why doesn't clubroot seed cost more then non resistant?

The answer to your question is the same.

[sawfly]

good question about club root
but at this point i think there is still a lot of margin in 600-1000$/bushel canola seed.

and so far, we are not in a situation where everyone, by necessity
has to use a resistant variety .
the price might change drastically
if that were the case.

my point is , we have the canola model right before our eyes, we have had 20-25 years with it.

this new situation
( UPOV91, combined with the end of public breeding in cereals and pulses )
will have a huge affect on canola too.
up to this point,what has kept a lid on canola seed cost?

like why is canola seed not 25$/lb?
at this point it is the comparative cost to plant another crop.
right.
and at this point we are right on that line. the seed cost now is at or over what the market will bear.

now, with upov 91, every other open pollinated crop is in the same game.
the royalty collection method will be in place.

every other crop is now ,on the same path canola has taken over the last 25 years.

now to review what happens

1. lots of investment in private breeding.

2. private breeders, compete or under cut public var. at first.
(private canola did not start at 12 $/lb.)

3. net result ,end of public breeding.

4. now we are all hooked. and the main 4-5 companies
are in control of every seed we plant.
(same as canola now.)

5. old public varieties become defunct or lost.

6. now the sky is the limit, for pricing any seed. 25$/lb. canola.
40$ / bushel wheat or peas.
just move all the prices up together.
( we see it in canola every year)

well they are not going to run us out of business. that would just be dumb. but they pretty well own us.

Now for the really scary part.
this same thing is going on all around the world.

you can now jack the cost to everyone at the same time.

it is just the seed owners slice just gets bigger and bigger.

it could get get to the point that
1 in 3 $ , maybe more, spent in the world on food would could end up in the seed patent holders pockets. (what is canola seed cost now ? about 22%of gross $ ?)

and when we get to that point, these corp.s really do not make any thing new or better.
just sit back and collect forever.
a greedy god between farmer and consumer.

[mustardman]

Unfortunately, I think that just about nails it sawfly

[farmaholic]

....take off your tinfoil hats. Don't you trust "them" to treat you fair?

They've gained full control of the canola seed market, "without" UPOV91 (Unlimited Pricing Opportunity Victory 91)

[tweety]

If its too expensive, another business model will emerge. Always has, always will.

[sawfly]

every one ends up paying more for forever
than a one time cost to the govt. and farmer.
under the new system , the only
benefactor is the seed patent holder.

with ultimately the consumer and farmer paying a tax forever.

that is a sick world

[Braveheart]

"Rolling around in the word innovation". A huge part of any farm's success can be using innovation.

In our case, reducing tillage, fertilizer placement, guidance, tissue testing and split app, fungicide use, etc are all examples I rate as innovation with big roi. When I think about seed, outside of input trait GMOs, innovation in the seed business hasn't given us the the same growth.

I think of it in terms of risk. Promises in quality or end use specs (by new varieties) can be wiped out in one untimely weather event. So, I end up buying a new variety, pay royalties with the promises of improved whatever, but, I carry ALL the risk.

Is this where end point royalties would make sense? Quality, or yield, delivered as promised, royalty paid. Variety doesn't deliver on guarantee, no royalty. I don't think this is the intent but would be an interesting twist to share risk.