Off Topic Re-Fracking Oil Wells

[AllisWD45]

Why are they supposedly much cheaper to re-frack than the original frack. This according to company websites that are or will be involved in re-fracking.
This when some are claiming it is a much more involved procedure with more fluids and more pressure than the original job.
Re-fracking seems like it has a future in todays investment climate in the oil industry

[Klause]

Sarcasm grassfarmer. Sarcasm.


Methanol? Never used. Evaporates too quickly in high temps.


The only time nasty stuff is used is when you're dealing with invert...

[LEP]

Allis, I would say that refracking is considered cheaper because they are going into an existing well not drilling new. Fracking has been around for decades. They were doing it in my area in the 70's. Like Coleville says with directional drilling and multistage fracking they are able to have essentially similiar production to 6 or 8 wells with the surface disturbance of one. More efficient infrastructure, less lease roads, less flow lines etc.

Grassfarmer the zones where the fracking occurs is no where near the depth where we draw drinking water.

I have no problem with fracking of oil wells. Shale gas is another story. It is too close to the depth where we draw our drinking water and I think this is where the bulk of the problems have occurred. Unfortunately, fracking of oil wells get lumped in.

[Klause]

Refracting costs more than the first frank but it's way cheaper than drilling a new well....


may be a good time to invest in calfrac and haliburton and the like

[AllisWD45]

Thank you guys. Was reading where Crescent Point was budgeting to do a lot of this in the future.Yes this may be an interesting thing investment wise. Sold some deep in the money calls on some gold stocks which should work out. Maybe next place is oil. Thanks again.

[grassfarmer]

Sarcasm - I don't think so Klause - caught you out fair and square BS'ing. No methanol indeed - check out the white paper prepared for the Methanol Institute on the role of methanol in fracking. It's even got the company MSDS sheets on there listing the methanol, not even hidden in their proprietary information.

http://www.methanol.org/Environment/Resources/Environment/Methanol-Fracking-Fluid-White-Paper-Aug-2011.aspx


LEP seems a complete novice too - it's all shale gas fracking they are doing in central Alberta, not oil, but when you say shale gas and its closer proximity to water I guess you are actually meaning fracking coal bed methane like at Rosebud. And so naive as to point out that it's at a different level to the water so how could contamination happen.
With 20-30% of existing and abandoned wells leaking, corroded well bores and poor cement jobs there is plenty opportunity for migration. Ask the folks in Pavillion, Wyoming what is in their water and where it came from. Or the "well communication" issue at Innisfail, AB where fracking on one side of a hill blew out an oil well on the other side and they knew nothing about it until passers by pointed out the oil slick running across a farmers field.

Allis I'd be wary of investing in such a process. First there is the "ethical investment" side which doesn't seem to bother you. Just wait until it's your land or your water contaminated.

Secondly you are taking a big risk investing in such cowboy activity. Fracking bans and moratoriums are springing up around the globe as more is learned about the practice. Denton, Texas - the birth place of hydraulic fracturing has banned it. Scotland, Wales and numerous other EU countries have moratoriums. Here in Canada New Brunswick, Quebec, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland all have bans or moratoriums in place.

As landowners I think there is a bigger issue here - you folks need to educate yourselves and wake up to the risks before the land men knock on your neighbours door wanting to drill under your land.
Here in Alberta we had the Provincial Government argue in court last fall in the Ernst vs Encana lawsuit that through their regulator the ERCB they "owed no duty of care to individual landowners harmed by industrial activity" They also tried to have her lawsuit struck down "because it would open a floodgate of litigation against the province"

What more proof do you need that they know this practise is wrong and they know it? As landowners that should concern you all.

[Oliver88]

Makes sense to use this process to fully utilize existing wells.

[Klause]

Grass we do this shit for a living!!!!


You sit on an Internet forum claiming you know more about flooding and oil than the rest of us that have actually experienced it. Quit Making a fool of yourself.


An oil well that has a 900m vertical leg and the fracture zone is at the bottom of that... do you have a water well that deep?

And no... oil fracturing is happening in central AB.

Three Hills, Olds, Sundre and Rocky Mountain all have fractured oil wells... I was on the rig that drilled them.



I have an MSDS binder 4 inches thick with all the chemicals that can be used in a well... about 20 pages covers 90% of what is used today.




Did you know surface casing is usually drilled with plain water? At the very least the first couple hundred meters are.

I agree there's old wells that leak and there are issues with gas wells... However standards in Canada are the tightest in the world... The US has issues. Heck half the time they don't even know what formation they are in!

[Klause]

And please clarify... are you against directional wells, franking, or all oil production?


Not all horizontal wells are fractured. Some verticals are.


From the sounds of your posts you are just anti energy.

[grassfarmer]

You are the one making a fool of yourself Klause - thought Xanthan gum was a dangerous chemical, thought methanol wasn't used - both proven categorically wrong.

Still haven't figured out how fracking products and groundwater can mix despite realizing there are poor cement jobs, leaking and corroded old wells. What about Pavillion and right here in my neighbourhood where products like BTEXs show up in water sources?

I'm living it, fracking and flaring all around and underneath us - not some grain farmer from another province with a rig pig winter job . All the fracking around here is shale gas, site after site, section after section.

What I'm against is this current substantially different type of fracking - being used on the horizontal wells.
The means that they are using to gain access under peoples property while paying no compensation. I'm against the almost total non-regulation in Alberta - we have the strictest rules in the world but there is no enforcement. The "regulator" in this province was de-regulated and is now entirely oil company funded with zero accountability and in fact acts as a bodyguard for the oil/gas industry. The whole system of energy extraction here is corrupt from top to bottom from oil companies to the government, all in bed together and working against the landowners and farmers of this province. But I guess you know better driving truck in Saskabush.

[oneoff]

Lets throw in the topic of witching and dowsing.

Then we'll find out what true B.S. is; and who's full of it..

[grgsrvc]

When fracing opponents get shown the facts of the matter they all resort to the paid off by the oil company card. Happens all the the time on all the other social medit sites why should it be any different here?

At over a million dollars per zone cost I would have to think somebody with a lot more education and experience then what you can get off the internet machine is in charge and understands the risks and processes better then some shrill ginger.

[parsley]

Oil and their "rig pigs", as well as land and their 'stubblejumpers', are the two main industries that have given Western Canada the high standard of living people all over the world would give their eye teeth for.

Both rig pigs and stubble jumpers are at the top of their game in the entire world, and both are viewed as experts in their fields.

Land and oil.
And the folks who turn both into wealth.

And don't ever ****ing forget it grassfarmer. Parsley.

[Klause]

So... When your shown your a fool you resort to name calling. Yup typical.


Do you have mineral rights? Nope.

A directional well is pulling oil or gas out and you have no lease roads no contaminants no well heads and no compaction. Why should you be getting any money? It doesn't affect you.


I'm sure if you wanted the well head on your land they would put one there.


Big difference between an 800m vertical gas well and a 2400m horizontal multi stage well... on the order of a few million dollars.


Your proof of methanol being used is a white paper from the organization promoting methanol...


did you know they used to use kerosene?

That's a hydro carbon.

Methanol is organic and biodegradable.


Are you saying you have methanol in your water?



How about heavy metals? Find any of those?



In our area here some wells actually bubble gas in the water... never had a well drilled for gas or oil ever... just natural... If they would start pulling gas then the pressure would drop and it wouldn't be in the water.



As far as regulations... you have no clue. Do you know the rules we have today for spill prevention blowouts cementing abandonment over drill etc etc? They are strictly followed. The days of cowboy drilling are long gone.


Look at your own white paper... 15% of 65 lbs used is methanol... that's one bag they throw in. 4 ppm.

You have more chance of having methanol in your well from spilling a jug of air brake antifreeze than fracking.


If you are "living it" show us water well test results from before fracking and after.


Good going insulting all those that grown grain and pull oil out of the ground on here. Pars hit the nail on the head.

[grgsrvc]

Grassy stick to telling us how to fatten cattle with grass and how to direct market them to consumers. When you talk about that you come across as a messiah.