Western Grain Elevator Assn

[Hopalong]

WGEA is in an unenviable position.
Three years ago when railways started to warn that revenue cap did not provide enough incentive for them to gear up for increased grain hauling capacity, the elevator association sided with grower groups that the revenue entitlement agreement was not up for negotiation.
Graincos are now coming under fire for wide basis levels, as some farmers put it "stealing from us" .
In retrospect, WGEA might have taken a more resposible position by warning of consequences from lack of shipping capacity. Wide basis levels are one of them.

[nicolaas]

I am not sure how you think farmers can compete against oil or frack sand. Should we be paying 90 - 100/tonne just for rail? Not many farmers can afford 3 dollar a tonne just for the railways, with no guarantee of service. Oil companies have deeper pockets, and are subsidized to an even greater degree than us grainfarmers.

[farmaholic]

Hopalong, I don't buy the arguement. The formula is designed to cover costs and provide profits. How can it be said they need more? To me is boils down to a lack of willingness and just a way to extort more money.

Where is all the extra money going to come from when the RRs finally get their way AND UPOV91 kicks in?

[bucket]

Hopalong

That's the same excuses they used when getting rid of the crow rate.

We were promised a more efficient system with less branch lines blah blah blah.

The railways and graincos have had at least since 1997 to make the system better. No sense in trying to catch up to capacity requirements after the fact.

They have had close to 20 years to plan for higher production and exports levels.

This is just nonsense.

[Hopalong]

Think it is not realistic to believe that we could somehow have kept the crow rate.
Would have meant rates of $5 a tonne or less.

[tweety]

True, but recall both the crow rate and the CWB were given up with absolutely nothing given in return. Zero bargained for. Zero received.

[Braveheart]

The Crow rate was replaced with the Western Grain Transportation Act in the early eighties. It was a declining subsidy. It would have been to zero long ago. Ralphie just sped it up by a few years.

The WGTA led to tremendous inefficiencies. To qualify for the subsidy grain had to touch water. Ridiculous things happened. Like, malt barley heading south from Winnipeg would first go to a Thunder Bay, (to get the subsidy) then backtrack to Winnipeg before heading south. Happened all the time, with all grains.

Of course it tied up grain cars for longer than necessary. The trouble is, I don't think car cycle times have improved much if at all.

[Braveheart]

The WGEA is an interesting group in the way they arrive at policy decisions. They must be unanimous to take a position. Often leaves them hamstrung as small companies like Paterson May have a different agenda.

[Hopalong]

Point I was trying to make is what is next move for WGEA?
How does it propose to encourage increased shipping capacity?
Or is it content to live with and sometimes benefit from present situation?

[farming101]

1995 WGTP 1.6 Billion

[sawfly]

the crow is history ,the farmer payout covered the increase in rates for three years. and yes the railroads or owners
backed out of the deal , what else is new.(their word is worthless)

The WGTA ,
the liberal and Conservative govt.s could have fixed its technical problems .
but didn't because they were too stupid or lazy.(what a govt.)

RRs got what they wanted. and in return promised to build infrastructure and haul.

right , the same lines of BS all over again now.

the RR.s see all the money the grain. co.s are stealing, and are pissed because it was theirs to steal.

now would someone please explain to me
how a govt or business can enter into a deal with a monopoly, and expect the monopoly to hold up their end.

never , they do not have to do, f all.
just take the money and run.
use the extra $ for oil tracks or dividends whatever.

if a cost profit ROI is not enough incentive to work , what is?
pay whatever rate , they still can do what they please.
who else is gonna haul it.

if the govt.s had not sold off CN.
the whole country could have invested
in the infrastructure.
and built world class transport system.

to the benefit of every producer and consumer and the strength of the nation..

CP would actually have a competitor
instead of co -conspirator.
and rates would reflect cost and profit.

you guys do not want socialist policy's at any cost.
but it is getting expensive.

Norway has their own oil co. and 64 billion in their heritage fund,
Alberta has 4.

even the US has the govt. run Mississippi.

well, we used to have 1 railroad and one oil company, and even a potash co.
thanks to liberals and Conservative.

now we have SFA

and instead of our freight $ being invested in tracks and stuff in canada.
it is gone far away , just like Alberta's heritage fund.
buying a yacht for somebody somewhere.(

[Braveheart]

I think the WGEA members could do better themselves to increase capacity. How many of their port facilities have loop tracks for quicker turnaround times? I know Vancouver is crowded but, at least make an effort.

I think the revenue cap has to stay. To remove it would be a blood bath for most farmers in the prairies.

Maybe the gov't needs to threaten the WGEA with a revenue cap to wake them up a bit.

[farming101]

Viterra is putting 100 M into Pacific and Richardson 120 M into North Van.

[Braveheart]

That's good news. So now how does Rupert boost it's efficiency?

[oneoff]

Its all customers overlooking the bogus industry claims that "losing money" equates to not making some 20 % plus rate of return.

Preferably a lot more.

And definately at least as high a return as their most lucrative portion of existing business.