• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Richard Grays analysis done for the Saskatchewan Wheat Con

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Richard Grays analysis done for the Saskatchewan Wheat Con

    Economist Richard Gray says elevator prices are down even though f.o.b. Vancouver prices have remained steady to higher
    Manitoba Cooperator February 17 2015 by Allan Dawson


    The Saskatchewan Wheat Development Commission (SWDC) says export wheat prices are similar to or higher than last October, but farmers are receiving about $20 per tonne less.

    “Rail transportation and handling capacity have not improved and this is being reflected in even lower returns for producers and a lower share of export values as the year progresses,” SWDC chair Bill Gehl said in a news release.

    “We were forecasting this would cost farmers $2 billion (this crop year) but it’s likely to be closer to $3 billion now if this keeps up,” Gehl said during an interview.

    Recent numbers prepared by University of Saskatchewan agricultural economist Richard Gray show that even though wheat prices f.o.b. Vancouver are unchanged to slightly higher than in October 2014, country elevator prices have dropped $20 a tonne.

    The excess basis cost for producers, relative to the posted costs for rail freight and primary and terminal elevator charges, is now more than $62 a tonne compared to $40 in October, the SWDC release says.

    Gray says grain companies want to export almost all Western Canada’s wheat from the West Coast because that’s where prices are highest. He hypothesizes that so long as there’s more wheat than can be exported through the West Coast in a crop year, prices will continue to be discounted at country elevators.

    “As long as there’s this idea that there’s going to be grain left over at the end of the year, nobody is bidding for it very hard,” Gray said in an interview.

    Still, Gray said he was surprised the basis has widened given grain has been moving to export relatively well this crop year. He said that could be due to farmers expecting that not all grain will move by the end of the year, so they are taking every chance they can to deliver.

    Grain buyers use basis to signal to farmers how badly they want to make a purchase. The basis last crop year widened when many elevators were too plugged to take deliveries.

    More capacity needed

    Gray says Western Canada needs more West Coast export capacity to reduce the difference between country and port wheat prices. But there are huge barriers to entry. Not only is it expensive to build terminals, there isn’t much room along Vancouver’s waterfront, he said. Prince Rupert has space and is a couple of days closer to a number of Asian markets, but is only served by CN. Grain shippers don’t want to rely on just one railway. However, that could be countered if the federal government allowed other railways to use CN’s line for a compensatory fee.

    The SWDC wants more farmer participation and planning in grain movement, Gehl said.

    “What we really need, and what we asked for in our CTA (review) submission, is that farmers be there so we can make sure that we have a good system that has the capacity and the co-ordination to make sure it’s not just the railroads and grain companies that are making all the money,” he said.

    Last year the SWDC formed a coalition with the Saskatchewan Pulse Growers, the Saskatchewan Barley Development Commission and Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan to fund Gray’s research on basis levels.

    Here is Rchard Grays analysis done for the Sask Wheat Comission
    http://online.flipbuilder.com/iyqg/ovjj/mobile/index.html

    #2
    Basis levels are at least fluctuating giving producers who watch an opertunity to grab decent prices - that was not an option in Richards beloved CWB .
    Richard does not get why some farmers are still delivering on wide basis ?? It's called cash flow there mr wizard .

    Comment


      #3
      Big crops need a good transportation system.

      Hermanson is on record in 1997 telling of the same problems as 2014.

      No one is building whether you talk railcars, port facilities, track capacity etc.

      The building is on farm storage that doesn't move product but adds to the known burden. A rush to the bottom for prices.

      And the other building is the guys that write another study. Their wallets fatten up nicely with saying the obvious known.

      Gray and depape will offer different opinions but they really count on their differing opinions publicly - it's their bread and butter.

      Comment


        #4
        I wish someone would check this on their calculator. Mine is obviously broken.

        First, we are talking just wheat right?

        The article says that farmers are being taken for 3 billion is this keeps up.
        Forecast wheat exports including durum are in the neighborhood of 22 million tonnes.

        $3,000,000,000
        divided by
        22,000,000t
        equals
        $136.36/tonne or $3.71 per bushel
        There is no way the market should be that much higher at the farm gate. World prices do not support it.


        And that is just what is suggested farmers are losing.
        No one is going to take these reports seriously if they can't even get the math right.

        Comment


          #5
          Farming 101

          Please review Richard Grays analysis and the last page where he explains that the earlier estimate of 2 billion will need to be revised upward.

          http://online.flipbuilder.com/iyqg/ovjj/mobile/index.html

          For others to compare Richard Gray's analysis to anything John DePape has said or done is a stretch.

          As an Ag economist Gray's work is peer reviewed while DePape got his pay off from Ritz.

          DePape was and is clearly at the trough

          Comment


            #6
            According to Richards study, it sounds like there is room for improvement for flow of grain to Prince Rupert. (Only CN having access to the rails to move grain there is not ideal)

            Hopefully the checkoff-paid commodity groups have raised this inefficiency.

            Comment


              #7
              Oliver 88
              You are correct we are not utilizing the port at Prince Rupert. The grain companies want to use Vancouver because as Gray explains it is the highest return market.

              Thunder Bay was empty last winter and the grain companies had no interest in filling TB because they would have to wait till spring to get paid.

              In the past when there was a big crop the CWB used to put on a eastern grain movement by rail in winter. The eastern rail movement was from Thunder Bay to the St Laurence terminals. There is currently no eastern grain movement because the grain companies have no interest in this.

              I remember in the 80's when I was a pool delegate we were continually told that CWB grain moved more efficiently through Vancouver because it was pooled meaning the CWB owned and did the logistics on all the wheat and barley. The CWB coordinated the movement of grain to meet market demand and sales.
              Canola then became pooled and the car utilization and turn around time became very similar to board grains.
              Currently at Vancouver a ship can berth up to 6 times before it is filled with wheat. This is good for the longshoreman and provides a lot more work, at farmers expense of course.
              In the past when the grain at Vancouver was owned by the CWB a ship could load some grain at Pioneer then move to Viterra and then if necessary finish the load at Cargill.
              It is said you cannot provide a solution if you don't understand the problem. I believe we have to look at cause and effect and that is the loss of the CWB. Also CGC inspection.
              The grain Companies are fully in charge and have no desire to eliminate this cash cow.
              My solution to this would be to reinstate the CWB marketing of wheat and barley and again pool canola at Vancouver. Why try to reinvent the wheel. In fact there is no desire by the grain companies to even invent the wheel.

              Comment


                #8
                I agree. Let's bring back the CWB.....not

                Comment


                  #9
                  Have studied both the November report and the updated February report by Richard Gray.
                  While there is no doubt that there have been huge losses due to the terrible handling of grain transportation logistics, the question this study and the update try to get a handle on is how big were the losses.
                  Here are a few things to question. I will put each one in a separate post.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    To arrive at a good conclusion one needs good reference points. The report assumes that the average of the maximum tariff rates charges by the grain industry for the 10 years previous to 2013-14 is a good reference point. I disagree.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The report assumes that the total of all exports can have the same basis deductions applied to them. So eastern corn, soybeans and wheat as well as canola, flax, pulse crops and all special crops no matter how they left Canada are included. I think that is a poor assumption. The report calculation from what I can deduce is this: 49,407,114 tonnes X 40.48 per tonne = 2 billion

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The report uses the AAFC weekly indicator price as the port price realized for all sales of wheat. If the report is trying to determine real losses for real sales of real grain then it follows that it should use real export prices too. The AAFC report plainly says that their weekly price does not reflect actual sales, but rather is a sampling of FOB asking prices.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I think I would still prefer demand pull logistics over supply push. OH right, studies show it doesn't work anywhere else in the world!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Blackpowder, no kidding, supply push is giving everybody a sore shoulder and grumpy disposition!

                            Demand pull for wheat is kinda questionable right now. If the dollar hadn't gone into a tailspin, wheat exports might have slowed up more than they actually have.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Gray's analysis is not peer reviewed. Neither was any of the work he did for the CWB. I suggest you ask him if you think its important.

                              Comment

                              • Reply to this Thread
                              • Return to Topic List
                              Working...