Who agrees and who disagrees! Open for discussion.

[furrowtickler]

Ya the Hut comment is irrelavent in this discussion.
If they paid wages for all the work done , their farms would be vastly diff .

[WiltonRanch]

So true Freewheat. My land base is best suited to mixed farming. I could go either way and still do okay in each sector but I like to spread the risk. Seen dry years where grain crops sucked but there was still something for the cows to eat. The guys who were all cows were dumping cause they had no grass or feed. When cows were terrible the canola cheques helped out and the cows ate cheaper crop residues. If I have some cereal grains that are light or heated I feed them to the calves and get better money out of the deal. At one time our operation was primarily grain but when the Crow was eliminated a sizeable portion of our hills were seeded down and we tripled our herd size.

I can see how the big cos are gradually getting their hands around the nuts of over leveraged producers. That scares the crap out of me because you lose your freedom and individuality. I hold that as my whole reason to live. I don't know about a few mega farms. More like 5 to 10 thousand acre farms. Seems like equipment and logistical limitations for 2 or 3 men is maxed. And that is maxed.

[blackpowder]

I find nothing to disagree with in Freewheats statement.

[wmoebis]

Agree Wilton. When cattle dropped in price and grain was good, Experts said 'specialize' get out of cattle and grow more grain. Then grain dropped and cattle sky rocketed, same experts said 'diversify' buy cattle.
Old timer once said "have a little of both, if you ever get stuck grab a cow by the tail she will pull you out".

[Richard5]

agree 100% with freewheat

I think there is this mentality about "the show" that one puts on from the road.

Many farmers don't care about this and are doing well (or well enough) for their own personal values. These are the ones that don't cry wolf everytime something doesn't go the way they think it should.

[Hopalong]

Responding particularly to Freewheat and Wilton.
Used to think same way as them, theory made sense but was different in practice.
Especially with mixed cattle grain operation, was true that when one was up, other was down.
It smoothed out cash flow and profit variability but think over longer term, grain was more profitable.
Risk management programs including crop insurance and Agristability subsidies have made most of the difference in grain profitability.
The other big thing is spreading management ability and timeliness of operations over two seperate large scale operations. Very often, one suffered at the expense of the other.
If there is local demand for production, more diversified operation may be better but for large scale commodity think spreading ourselves too thin is as big a danger.
Before getting jumped on for using subsidized risk management, should say that we would look at private risk management before going back to more diversified operation.

[furrowtickler]

Wmoebis - well - that's the fairy tail version . What is realy happening is zero premiums need to be paid to get that grain in the door for most - those bills must be paid or the said farmer is SOL on next years inputs. They have no where else to get credit - that is who they want.
One local that is tied up with this lollipop and rainbows "partnership" got the call to deliver all his barley at once . He was all happy to get it all in until he asked about the price . $2.96 ...meanwhile the elevator 1 mile away was $4. He was telling me this story all animated and carrying on. I just thought to my self - you made the bed ....
Oh , I did mention to him that it worked out to a $75 / ac loss from the elevator down the road - he looked stuned to realize it that way.
I am sure some farms will do ok with this - but those who are forced to because of expansion and lack of bank backing are getting rear ended very hard with out lube .

[SASKFARMER3]

Richard you don't know farmers very well they could be five seconds from broke and they still wont say how bad it is. Yes some farmers won the grain lottery the last few years and are sitting real nice. Others have eaten into savings and some even refinancing now. Yes its happening believe it or not. Those who haven't experienced problems think programs in place help. HA HA HA HAHA.
That's a joke. They keep you going or slow and painful end.
So maybe its a tale of two sides the ones who lucked out with good prices and rain where they never knew what rain was. Others who got flooded and lost every single year but survived.
Time will tell but I Wonder how many who have had a great last 8 years could survive with 8 year of drought. Just tell me how well they would do.
But hey that's farming when some do good other have to do bad.
Looking like a nice dry winter I'm getting real excited about the coming summer. Real excited.
But time will tell. One fricking wet foot of snow first of may and were back in shit.
Ah Farming!

[freewheat]

Hopalong, you hit on my whole point: Everyone almost thinks large scale. I and others are talking about it from a different angle, and size is not a factor.

See, in western Canada, we have this bigger is better mentality, to the point where even if someone mentions the words "smaller scale", it is completely missed.

My laying hens gross me thousands an acre, for example, and net me half my gross.

Consumers pay 6 dollars a lb for fresh butchered lamb.

A neighbor is selling pasture raised pigs for 400 dollars a market hog. 30-40 sows, is a pretty nice gross for 80 acres.

Personally, I am talking beyond your basic cow calf/grain operation. I am talking a different language.

[freewheat]

Hopalong, you hit on my whole point: Everyone almost thinks large scale. I and others are talking about it from a different angle, and size is not a factor.

See, in western Canada, we have this bigger is better mentality, to the point where even if someone mentions the words "smaller scale", it is completely missed.

My laying hens gross me thousands an acre, for example, and net me half my gross.

Consumers pay 6 dollars a lb for fresh butchered lamb.

A neighbor is selling pasture raised pigs for 400 dollars a market hog. 30-40 sows, is a pretty nice gross for 80 acres.

Personally, I am talking beyond your basic cow calf/grain operation. I am talking a different language.

[Hopalong]

Have loved getting to large scale grain operation, maybe liking helped us get there.
Not so much liking for cattle operation but saw it as necessary or prudent from risk management perspective.
Nothing but respect for those who are doing work they might not like as well but see it as helpful to farm profitability and sustainability.

[grassfarmer]

I think you are spot on freewheat. We have being doing the beef pork direct retailing thing for the last 12 years and the opportunity to grow the market seems unlimited. Changing track a little now to concentrate on breeding the genetics on the cattle side to suit these new marketing methods as I see huge opportunity in that.