T. Boone Pickens: The Keystone Pipeline

[Hopalong]

Remember all the lead up to first major change and end of Crow rates.
Crow had become a rallying point among farmers, similar to what revenue agreement is today.
For years, Sask municipal assn had resolutions of support for Crow.
Inflation had made Crow rates only a portion of rail costs and government had put in place subsidies to haul grain off prairies.
It took years for growers to see that we were losing more from lack of service than we gained from low freight rates and subsidies.
Only after SARM support collapsed did government make change and introduce revenue cap which fixed things for a while but has flaws
Predict that change or end will also come for cap, just as it did for Crow and subsidies.

[Hopalong]

As to Keystone, It is similar issue for US politicians to what Crow has been for Ottawa.

[tweety]

I'll ask again Oliver, show one single post that says that.

Also, how does everything get to texas and back now? how does one trip of refined keeping the value added and jobs here worse then two trips using more pipeline and rail resources and giving the jobs and value added to texas? Asking again.

Can't wait to hear that answer!!

[Oliver88]

Tweety I'm not opposed to value added refineries.
The legitimate questions I have are the four unanswered ones i posted above.
All petroleum products currently are shipped via pipeline, rail and truck.

The USA imports 5 billion barrels of oil/day so obviously we can pipeline oil to the Gulf of Mexico AND refined oil in Alberta if we can get the adequate oil refining capacity.
Right now we export the U.S. half their oil. The remainder is shipped from terrorist ridden OPEC countries.....the Keystone would bring our % huge and cut into OPEC funds.

We need to minimize oil on the rail to keep our grain shipping costs to a minimum.

[tweety]

Use the existing pipelines to ship refined products and stop the shipment of crude to the US and the return of refined back again retardedness.

So your solution to the 'grain crisis' is to not build a single refinery, not have have any permanent jobs, no value added, just pour crude in a pipeline to the US as fast and as much as possible, minimizing royalties (any and all oil and gas transportation displacement have no royalties collected), having the US get the permanent jobs, value added profits, and allow control of pricing and profits for refined products coming back to Canada further plugging up transportation?

Sounds like you are a shoe in for Alberta's premier.

[ALLFARMER]

If its piped south into the states it won't be coming back as a refined product.

Its because were a 1/10 the size of the states so have 1/10 the usage/market demand. That and its not like we don't have our own refineries here already.

Imperial, shell, suncor plus 15 other refineries canada has.

[Hopperbin]

Allfarmer thanks for ending the madness. Refinedproduct does not come back to canada cause we refine our own. Refineries are in gulf states to refine middle east oil. That oil is no longer imported so we need to pipe or rail it from the north. Maybe move some refineries north would be in order.

[tweety]

12% of Canadian consumption is imported.

Canada supplies 26% of US energy needs and 97% of Cdn exports go to the States.

Crude:
Canadian production 3.5 MMb/d
Exports 2.6 MMb/d
Canadian oil sent to domestic refineries 1.1 MMb/d
Imports by domestic refineries 0.6 MMb/d

Instead of shipping all that crude as crude, lets keep jobs here. We could easily double refinery capacity.

We could make steel plants instead of shipping ore to china and back.

We could do far more oilseed crushing if we could eliminate oil tariffs carefully put in place by countries that understand what value added means.

Or, just keep exporting and wonder why our economy and dollar suck balls.

[stonepicker]

Good points tweety, you must've been watching Bug's this morn. It's too bad that politicians don't put what's good for the country as there first priority when making laws and passing bills.In north america we're held hostage by enviroMENTAL extremists and a leftwing media. I don't think the states has built a refinery since 1972, i agree with you, we should be building them here and ship out the finished product.