The future is here. Will you embrace it?

[LEP]

I have more experience than in this area than you think. I have shipped grain internationally since 1993.

I agree many companies are good, if not great to deal with. But Kijiji is no place to get a contact.

I have seen this in the pulse business many times. I once had a cardiologist from Saskatoon want to buy my lentils. He had a family member in India that wanted a couple containers of reds. Not saying there was any risk there, but wtf did he know about the lentil trade. In fact he nothing. Would have had no problem paying for the product, but wouldn't be able to execute.

If you want to hear some tales I am sure Vicki and Dave could give an endless number of examples.

My only thought is this is an area where you must DYODD. Not saying it is bad at all.

[Klause]

I used that as an example... Our container of wheat went out and we got paid immediately... that deal was facilitated over alibaba... I agree one must do their own due dilligence

[sumdumguy]

Go ahead, don't listen to experience and good will. Have a good day bgmb. After 30 years of international marketing we have met a few foxes in the bushes. SURPRISE

[dave4441]

We don't have to use alibabi or kijiji, we have people call everyday. They will pay upfront first couple times and then wham, you get comfortable and suddenly they have money problems. It's the same offer every time. Many don't know where the market is truly at in destination and don't understand true costs. They have an uncle who has a friend, who drives a taxi. I have stopped telling taxi drivers in saskatoon that I export lentils. They are all in the business and want your card.

LC are not guarantee of payment. They can be created so technically that the buyer has an out. 99 percent of the people on here shouldn't use them, myself included. Trade is made gradually through relationships and AR insurance. I have probably traded about 400 million worth of grain in last 10 years and used AR insurance once. The poison dwarf taught me a powerful lesson.

I am curious if you see additional sales of containers of wheat. Loaded on farm is simply not viable, especially as basis tightens up so much on wheat in last few months. Need a real specialty buyer that sees some story for his customer to pay the extra cost. Vessel frt is half of containers, bulk rail frt is cheaper domestically to port then cost to ship container to Vancouver. To expect any significant volumes traded this way, especially on wheat, is not likely. Can a few do it? For sure and I hope you do. But It costs money to build relationships and doesn't happen overnight.

The simple fact is, for 10 years people have been talking about source loading wheat on the prairies but it doesn't happen because it isn't really cost affective. Some believe it will happen eventually as the world is building lots of container ships and less bulk ships so frt rates could standardize. Time will tell. $5 or $10 higher costs per Mt will make or break a sale in this business. Ocean rate differences on $30 or $50 even are impossible to get around. Again, not discouraging anyone from finding that niche, just go into it with your eyes open.

[dave4441]

Sorry, looked at the kijiji add after i commented.

First thing to note is that the buyer is using a hotmail address and doesn't post a business name. That is the first sign this guy would scare me. Call the guy. I will bet a chunk of cash that he is driving a cab in Calgary.

Real buyers don't say they need 3000 MT per year. They don't tell you their needs upfront like that. For me that is always a sign of concern.

[ado089]

This will be my second year not growing HRSW and I have 4 crops in the rotation. The only crop I still sell to traditional buyers is canola. I say give it shit Klause. whats the difference if you get stiffed entirely on one container or just ****ed on every tonne? It gives me great pleassure seeing the likes of Dave grovel at the idea of farmers selling directly to actual customers. News flash, grain traders are becoming obsolete...your job can be done a computer and with that extra 15% someone isn't skimming you can afford to pay a little more freight.

[dave4441]

Actually, I am a farmer selling my own grain direct. And to be quite frank can't handle the current volume we have available to us. Our shipments thru our main facility where up 20 percent to end of March vs last year. We are topped out. Rail service has been very good.

Why do we hear so much about on farm loading of containers of wheat but it never happens? Cause it is not feasible. Please someone prove me wrong. Do you think the guy, sitting in Calgary, which this thread is about, is a field agent for a 3000 mt malting program in Pakistan? 3000 mt, in a commercially viable business, is as close to zero as you can get. In fact a 0 MT program would be more profitable then a 3000 MT program. The guy wants to try and take the spread from farm gate to destination and thinks it is huge. Cause he won't understand the costs. I hope someone proves me wrong.

I know there is container business loaded in Vancouver for China on malt, just the idea of this guy being legit is unlikely.

[LEP]

ado your comment reminds me of a time in early 2000. I was talking to two sales guys from CN.

They were super excited that they had come upon an idea that will change how farming is done.

With all the interest in IP crops they suggested why not load containers at source as you combine. No more need for grain bins or elevators.

I said OK, a 20ft container is roughly 800 bu. Can you get 12 of these to every farm a day? Well no was the answer. Can you get 12 of these to my farm a day? Starry eyed gaze.

Anyway I think there was even an article about it in Country Guide, but it never went any where.

So my point is on the surface it all seems easy.

[cottonpicken]

So if say we had giant Canadian Western Brockerage(CWB) with registered buyers and sellers facilitating the transactions ahhhhhh.....fuuuuucccckkkk iiiiittttttt

[jamesb]

I'm with you Dave, I have followed this stuff pretty closely and through the school of hard knocks I have learned that the idea that there is a huge margin to be had in the middle of the supply chain is false. We have had the likes of FNA espouse the idea of this and its come to nothing. I have read studies by SPG and others that have always backed this up. Deals like this are a huge risk for a farmer. Its great to see new entrants in the market but is it worth the extra few cents ?

[Klause]

A few cents?


I agree this isn't for anyone...


Gotta remember My Mother worked in Int'l trade for Hamburg-Sud and Daimler in South America... shipping to Asia and Africa...


The logistics, payment, and freight volumes she dealt with makes Dave's business look like pocket change.


I owned an IT business with clients in 20 countries for 8 years.. again, not new to working in other countries.



Is there risk in Intl' trade? Yup.... But we custom spray and I have 3 accounts in collections... so there's risk in "local" business too.



As far as the argument of a few "cents"... really? Keep believing that. What we got for our wheat is 200% of the local market, that's after logistics are figured in.



If there's "No money in it" why are guys like Dave... Bornhorst... etc. doing it?


There are niche markets for specific product all over the world... Esp. in Asia. Mom and Pop noodle shops...


In barley there's more and more micro breweries that malt their own barley.


Will this ever replace commodity trading? Probably not. But it is an option.


The west is trending more and more to knowing where food comes from... who it comes from... putting a face to the meal on their table.


There's opportunity there...


There's opportunity all over. Just go out and find it.


The world's wealthiest people didn't get there by saying it doesn't work or you can't do it or it'll never be worth it.

[dave4441]

I think there is opportunity but for the most part it will be difficult loading containers on the prairies. I can't be competitive (unless I want to give all my net margin away) shipping lentils to India from Kindersley in containers. Need hoppers to Vancouver and stuff there. Maybe if you farm right near Calgary it may work, but companies increase there price the closer you get to Van, which offsets it.

We are in the business of volume like any grain company. But need infrastructure to make it happen. Have to load hoppers and stuff at port to be most efficient, but even then wheat will be a very tough market to compete in (I tried this in SA and still looking at it but it simply goes nowhere. Small volume special crops like canary and some green lentils business works. Today I doubt its possible on wheat, but you may find a niche here or there. I don't for a second condemn anyone from trying that. 10 years ago we started with a couple million in trade in our first year. Grown exponentially from there but takes time. We were 50 farmers for first 10 years.

Logistics is easy part and there are a zillion people that will help for a reasonable fee.

The whole basis of this thread was selling to a person on Kijiji/Alibaba. Good luck on that, I doubt commodity business will ever get there and the players in that arena scare the shit out of me. Maybe I get proven wrong but I doubt it. Too many moving parts.

[Hopperbin]

Bornhorst st gregor sells green peas and canary seed. He cannot compete anywhere else.

[Hopperbin]

Cannot do yellow pea business.

[sumdumguy]

We have been beating the bushes for foreign wheat sales and we can't compete, not even close. There are taxi drivers every day phoning and wanting 100 metric ton a week, not that they know how much that is. Just tell them you want payment up front, the end of the story. Fishermen, the market is full of them. Dave, I know it looks easy but several of us have learned in the school of hard Knox. Live and learn that you can't be too careful and letters of credit, you hit it on the head. Instead of buyers beware, it's seller beware, but everyone has to learn their own life lessons.