Selling to the US without the CWB

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

Obviously on the milk, the supply must have increased from somewhere!

I know with the hog producers, they have a choice...

They can produce contract hogs, making a small but consistant profit... or they can gamble on the cash market...

On the contract hogs, a feed component is included in the price, so if feed cost increases, so does the market price!

Now, this is the kind of innovative initiative we need with a marketer!

But obviously when a contract is working between two parties, neither one will get rich over night, plus trust and reliability must be part of the situation!

How do we get to this situation?

Commitment, trust, reasonable rate of return, and most of all respect for each other!

Ianben... the CWB never has had control of fixing supply, unlike most other marketing boards...

The only statutory obligation the CWB has is to market the grain offered to the CWB in the authorised manner stated by the CWB Act.

If the government of Canada did what they said they were supposed to do when they started the CWB as a market stabiliser, then it would be different.

The CWB was to supply you folks in the EU, wheat.

Wheat at a reasonable price, to help you and farmers alike, through a stable and "fair" 5 year international wheat agreement!

Now the stable "fair" agreement is gone... and "designated area" farmers are stuck with a marketer who would rather call in customs agents, and send folks to jail.

Rather call in customs agents, and send folks to jail, than respect and honour those who they were supposed to support and share burdens with!

Why is it so imposible to get the cash price that the CWB gets each day...

Unless the CWB knows this revelation will insure the CWB's death itself...

It is forsure something stinks, and this time it is not in Denmark... it is in 403 Main, on the 3rd floor in the sales dept. and connected, in our PM's and CWB Minister's offices!!!

[almoy]

In the area where I live the majority of the farmers are quite happy selling their grain through the wheat board. As some farmers say they have enough headaches marketing their pulse crops that it is nice to have one crop that is looked after for them.

I also like the contracting system that allows everyone to sell a percentage of what they grow. On a year of oversupply it allows all farmers an EQUAL advantage to sell some wheat. But then I like to see my neighbour survive too. I don't want to be the only one for miles out here.

[parsley]

Almo,
These are some Saturday morning thoughts for you.

Equality is the political thought that dominates some areas in Saskatchewan. We've listened to the equality-above-all-else philosophy for decades. But how does your political idea of equality translate over the years?

Well, Don Mitchell states in his book called the Politics of Food, explains how "..measures such as the Canadian Wheat Board and the Price Stabilization Act in 1944 were aimed at keeping prices down for farm commodities. The price of farm commodities advanced over 17 per cent from 1949 to 1970 with the price of wheat virtually frozen from 1945 to 1972. Farm income had to come from increased volume if they came at all"

In other words, your concern is that ALL farmers get an equal share of low wheat prices. Your concern is that some greedy farmer doesn't get just a little more than you do, "doesn't cherry pick", like Ianben and thalpenny constantly fret about, because that would cause you such anguish. You would not mind that from 1945 to 1972 prices stayed low, that there was no increase in the price of wheat, because you got your "fair share" of the stagnant price!

Wheat income didn't rise from '45-'72, but Saskatchewan wheat farmers in your area, would be satisfied as long as nobody else got more money than they did.

Well, flax increased in price, even though wheat didn't. Maybe a few farmers negotiated themselves a few dollars more, and were looked upon as greedy by those particular farmers in your area, but the fact is flax prices did rise in that period, while wheat did not. And that meant higher prices for every farmer.That meant more dollars in every community. Maybe not equal prices, but higher prices. And although you may find this concept difficult to accept, Price Hiking Farmers like to see their neighbors survive, too.


The same can be said today for canola, where the Believers in the Equality of Price, en masse, abandoned growing the very wheat which they claimed insulated them in an economic quilt of equality, and began growing canola. Because they chased the money. And there is nothing wrong with wanting money. To educate our children. To go on holidays. To eat well. Wealth creation can provides us with new money and more money, while the the politics of equality often reflects envy.

Parsley

[ianben]

Almoy may have it here.
The milk came from the oversupply barrel.
We have a milk quota so supply should be fixed.
The MMB bought all the milk a producer sent and distributed round the buyers with a pooled price.Liquid has a premium over manufacturing but to guarentee supply some always went to manufacturing.
Like the CWB loopholes developed and the dual system was adopted.
Here cherrypicking or good marketing did happen. Some producers got 29p and some 25p so the ones on 25p sold for 27p to the other guys customer over and over all the way down to 14p.

This is my experience with a board system changed to dual. A few loopholes seem to make no difference but cause disatisfaction.
As soon as a dual system is started it works ok till a price differental exists.
Then look out! Everybody scrambles for the best price.
Think about how you will decide on who will hold a carryover in a good year.I believe the CWB do hold stocks and regulate supply in some way. Who will supply your customer when you cannot and then why should he return to you.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

One of the CWB's biggest blunders in the past year, was to sell everything they could lay their hands on, at a historically low price...

Their market intelegence was wrong.

Now if I trust the CWB, as they are supposed to be the market superstars, I have been let down big time...

This would be OK if the government would be responsible, and cough up the difference... but you and I know this is not going to happen.

If the CWB were only controling wheat and barley that was "offered" to them, as the CWB Act specifies they only do control... then selling CWB stocks would have been sad, but not unfair.

But since the CWB uses Jail and Customs enforcment officers to visit our homes, obviously we are into the realm of dictators and thugs.

The market will go up, and down...

By the way Ianben, the folks getting 27 or 29 pence, could be on the other side, when the price of milk goes to 35 pence...

The market is always right, whether we like it or not... if there is a market that can respond to supply and demand to begin with.

Market transparency and arbitrage are part of your problems with your wheat market, as well, in the EU.

The CWB is using the EU lower price to justify lower prices in Canada... which goes directly what you have been speaking for in a marketer...

So Ianben... we import 4 MMT of Corn, at high prices... and the CWB feels entitled to dump lower quality feed grains on the international market lowering your price at the same time.

Where do I recieve any CWB protection from what is actually happening?

All the CWB does, is, use the single desk monopoly to, extract my grain at the lowest price it possibly can...

Now this could change... but governments and consumers who hold the democratic power... get the right to make me provide their food at the cheapest possible price...

So Ianben, I would say we are back at square one again, wouldn't you?

[ianben]

Tom
I hope not quite at square one.
I see some form of change must some happen at CWB. They are clearly failing to give customer satisfaction.
Just hope some of you see it may not be as simple as you think.

We may see 35p milk oneday but already some of the original voices for change have been forced from the industry along with many others.

Cowman said nobody wins in a drought and noboby has won with the removal of our MMB.

There must be a better way than we used.

Make sure you find it!!

[parsley]

ianben,

You complain, "Some producers got 29p and some 25p so the ones on 25p sold for 27p to the other guys customer over and over all the way down to 14p.", and that is the sore spot isn't it, that some guys rake in more than others? Some guys get more money. More money. You obviously want a piece of the $$$$action. You are concerned with wealth distribution. Is this because of equality? Or because you simply want money?

Let's extrapolate your equality philosophy to world economics and apply it.

15% of the world's population has an average per capita income of $21,000.00 annually
85% of the world 's average income is $1,000.00 annually

ianben, you belong to the 15%. Do you want your 15% to throw their total income into the 85% pot, so that the world income will rise and everyone will be equal? Would the lifestyle in the 85% group change very much? I presume you would be pleased to see your $21,000.00 annually drop to a little over $1000.00/year, because that satisfies the equality factor you moan about. Do you really want your equality philosophy applied this way? And the big question is this.. what happens if the wealth creators get fed up and quit? What happens if the 15% throw in the towel? What happens if wheat farmers throw in the towel? What happens if farmers across Canada throw in the towel? They produce $34.4 Billion in primary production in Canada. Should that be shared equally among the 230,230 farms across Canada? Or should it instead be shared equally with 30 Million Canadians? Or , according to your equality factor, if you think it right through, should it be shared with the entire world.?

Is equality what you really stand for?

Parsley

[Everest]

Almoy,

I'm glad you're back. I believe it is perfectly legitimate that you and a majority of farmers in your area want to market through the CWB. I would not want to take that right away from you.

Do you think it is a legitimate desire or right that other farmers be able to market outside the CWB? The issue is not the CWB. The issue is a compulsory CWB.

Should a group of farmers who desire to price pool through the CWB have the right to force other farmers into the scheme, even though their needs are better met by marketing direct?

Hope you can give me some insight into how you view this question. I have asked other CWB/pooling supporters this question, and I never seem to get an answer.

Cheers

[JD_GREEN]

ALMOY YOU STATE THAT PRODUCERS IN YOUR AREA ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY SELLING TO THE CWB AS THEY HAVE SUCH GREAT DIFFICULTY IN SELLING THEIR PULSE CROPS. WELL ALMOY I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT MARKETS AND SELLS PULSE CROPS AND HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM MARKETING THEM. I AM ALSO A BUYER OF PULSE CROPS OWNING AND OPERATING A PROCESSING FACILITY. IF TRUTH IS KNOWN, THE REAL REASON THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY IN MARKETING THEIR PULSE CROPS IS THIS!! WHEN AN AGING POPULATION OF FARMERS HAVE BEEN TREATED LIKE MUSHROOMS IN REGARDS TO MARKETING THEIR PRODUCTS FOR DECADES, DID YOU ACTUALLY EXPECT ANY OF THEM TO BE MARKETING WIZARDS!! MOST FARMERS WOULD BE EXCELLENT MARKETERS IF THEY WERE LESS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID ON COFFEE ROW ABOUT MARKET CONDITIONS AND WHAT THEIR NEIGHBOR RECEIVED FOR HIS PULSE CROP. I HAVE SEEN MORE PROFITS LOST ON PULSE CROPS IN THE PAST THAN MAY VERY WELL EVER BE MADE WITH CEREAL CROPS THROUGH THE CWB. ALL A RESULT OF POOR MANAGEMENT NOT MARKET CONDITIONS.

[ianben]

Parsley
I thought my comment your CWB stinks was plain enough.
Just we made mistakes and did not see problems with a dual system.
I am just a farmer not a polititian so words and meanings may be a little confused.
I will try to explain again but this is not personnal.
You have your no cost licence and you market well beating the board price every time selling all you can produce.
Almoy sticks with the board and they still read the market badly he gets less than you and only sells 80% of his crop.
Acouple of years go by.
Almoy is getting desperate even he has had enough of the CWB.
He takes your customer and sells him all his wheat that bit cheaper than you.
Now you either sell no wheat or all your wheat for a little less than him.
You carry on till one of you go broke and the other is not far off
Just reporting what has happened with the MMB in the UK.

[ianben]

Thanks JD your post was not there when I replied.
The mushrooms dont die. They wake up.
You end up marketing with the mushrooms and they wreck the whole thing.
Lots of the mushrooms here suvived and the younger guys which the industry needs left. All about cash in the bank and the needs of a young family.

[charliep]

JD_Deere

The issues in the pulse industry revolve around the fact there are risk management tools to help the industry manage price risk in their business. The CWB manages their price risk by leaving it at the farm level until full payments are made.

The other issue is all the new entrants in the pulse processing business that are under financed (particularly given price risk they face). The grain side (and oilseeds for that matter) are mainly sold through the big grain companies with the exception of feed grains. They (to date) have been relatively financially secure (I didn't say profitable/a good investment).

As an interesting question, what would level of CWB/farm exposure be if one of the big grain companies goes broke over the coming winter?