Lets ask the customer!

[ianben]

JD sent one of those market research polls today. I suppose you get them too. A question and you have to tick the box from exellent down to poor.

Market Research I believe is the idea.

So why dont we do some and find out what the customer thinks of your CWB.

Do they buy Canadian wheat because of or in spite of the CWB

Are they confident Canada, through the CWB, will supply the quality and quantity they require or have they already sent someone to the Ukraine to garentee supply.

Sometimes much can be learnt from speaking to the customer.

I learnt that French wheat, although always quoted at £2/tonne above UK, did not command a premium.
A Spanish miller informed me that the contract stipulated minimum 15% moisture UK consistantly delivered 14% but French was never above 12% worth another £2/tonne to him.
Not a real premium in my opinion.

Another point of interest was that he was unable to pay more for identity preseved we call it asssureed grain but if offered assured UK grain at £2 less than French. He would buy the UK grain.

So if we managed to sell assured UK grain at £2 less than French were we marketing our wheat.

Can a sale be the premium?

Could the questionaire find evidence that CWB was the reason your customers bought Canadian grain. How about it Vader?
Or that CWB was the reason a customer did not buy Canadian grain. or CWB was not supplying the sevice they wanted.

Come on Parsley and Tom send an Email to Warburtons and see what they think.

Their web address is www.warburtons.co.uk

Dont suppose Charlie or Lee would have time but if they did perhaps their results might be more credible.

Regards Ian

[AdamSmith]

Hi Ianben, I have asked Warbutons, but the deal is that anyone who buys Canadian wheat and barley MUST go through the CWB and they will not under any circumstances risk putting a kink in that supply chain. The customer wants wheat and wheat period and if that means sucking up to the CWB and spewing the CWB like, that's what they do. But as we've said many times before on Agri-ville why would any buyer complain about an assured supply at cut rate prices?

Back to Warbutons, I had a contract with then Manitoba Pool to deliver wheat to Warburtons and a Warburton rep came out to our local community to speak to the farmers growing wheat for them and I asked him point blank how much they were paying, landed in the UK for this wheat. He told me and after we figured out the costs it worked out that there was around $110 t cdn. difference between what they paid and what we got. I knew right then that we were getting a raw deal from the CWB.
This was in the fall of 1996 if I recall corectly.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

Just who is the CWB's real customer?

Isn't the farmer who grows the products the CWB has the opportunity and priviledge to market on behalf of the CWB's real customer?

THE only way our farms will remain commpetitive and profitable, is if we have transparent market signals, and grow what the consumers of our products will pay for.

Having someone in the middle, is useful only if they produce a tangeble measurable increase in the value of a product.

But as your wheat buyer said... wheat is wheat... unless you can provide information about your wheat that proves your product is worth more than someone elses, wheat is wheat.

Same goes for the CWB.

Ever watch people eat at a smorg or cafeteria self serve dinner?

At a CWB function, the CWB directs everyone exactly how to eat, where to pickup what.

At most other dinner functions people just organise themselves. Without anyone telling everyone what to do.

People get to eat both ways, and are just as satisfied from what I have seen.

If some people need the CWB's help, great.

If some people do not want the CWB's help, that should be fine to.

Either way, the farmer is still the CWB's customer!

It should be their choice!

[eatmorewheat]

I am a domestic customer of the CWB and I detest having to deal with them for a few reasons.

1) Their oppression and communist actions in locking down prairie farmers is disgusting and morally wrong in a free country.

2)They overcharge me yet grossly underpay the producer. I pay interest if I am one day late in paying for the wheat. Yet their bad debts are over $6 billion from foreign (non-captive) customers. Currently paying over $8.75/bu for # 2 cwrs del'd mill.

3) Their monopoly has held back economic development in the west for over 2 generations.

[eatmorewheat]

Curious eatmorewheat - if you feel overcharged by the CWB, yet contend that the farmer is underpaid - where do you think the money goes?

Regarding past due debt, it is guaranteed by the govt. of Canada, and the CWB gets to collect the interest spread between the commercial and govt rates of interest from this debt. This all goes back to farmers.

Sounds to me that you'd like the CWB gone so the price you have to pay could be less. That's a powerful motive to say the things you say.

Regarding economic development, since the 2 price wheat system disappeared in 1990, there has been a higher rate of growth of processing of grain in Canada, and in particular western Canada, than in the US. Hardly a case for holding back economic development.

Tom

[eatmorewheat]

Many of you will recall the customer survey that was conducted for the Western gRain Marketing Panel in 1996. They had a list of criteria that they surveyed international customers on.

REgarding uniformity of shipment, copnsistency, market development and support, etc., the CWb scored higher than our competitors. REgarding the question on the price they pay, the CWB scored lower than the US, Argentina and other exporters, as was the Aussie. The customers thought that the CWb and AWB were higher priced than the competition.

Tom

[Vader]

Adamsmith

110 dollars a tonne. amazing. I am told that there were 4300 wheat contracts for CWB wheat last year. This to 70 countries.

Obviously our PRO is the average of these thousands of contracts.

I see that you are unhappy with taking the average of these thousands of sales representing how we currently market our grain from Canada.

It is also obvious that you would like your grain sold only to Warburtons at a premium of 110 dollars per tonne. I don't blame you for not wanting to share this with other Canadian farmers. Wouldn't we all like to get an extra $3.00 per bushel. Can we? Let's open this up to competition and let everyone try to force their wheat into Warburtons. Perhaps your neighbor would be happy to settle for a $2.00 premium. Perhaps his neighbor would be happy to settle for a $1.00 premium. Hopefully nobody would settle for anything less than a dollar a bushel premium over the CWB average. Let me see,... if I produce 1000 acres of wheat at 30 bushels per acre and I got a 50 cent premium, I would make what? .... an extra $15,000 dollars. Would I do that? Would my banker make me do that?

Warburtons has become a high profile premium market as a result of your advertising. Perhaps you should keep this information to yourself. I think that is called "commercially sensitive" information.

I don't think Warburtons is happy about paying premiums as you indicate. I think that the Japanese are likewise unhappy about paying premiums for Canadian Wheat. I don't think the CWB wants to throw that in their face. The more open and accountable the CWB is in response to producers demands the more likely it is that the customers who pay premiums will become increasingly reluctant to do so.

Listen to what Eatmorewheat has to say. He hates the CWB because they make him pay too much for your wheat. He wants the CWB out of the way so he can get you and your two neighbors to step into his "sales office". Said the spider to the fly. Eatmorewheat wants to eat you wheat - cheap.

[eatmorewheat]

thalpenny:

See earlier post on another thread below:
eatmorewheat posted Oct 22, 2002 19:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cdn millers pay a premium for cwb wheat.

We are overpaying and the oppressed western farmer is getting under paid.

visit www.hayhoe.com for current cwb prices eastern millers pay

Real simple economics--- overcharge your captive market and discount the rest. End result, captive market only takes 15% of average crop soooo the other 85% draaaaaaags down your final return.

Break free the western farmer and pasta, bagels, frozen dough leaves the prairies NOT RAW wheat. This is how you combat US farm bill an EU CAP. Think harder than your competitor and you beat him.

Ontario now about to begin to set up cookietown.

Free wheat in the west.

[eatmorewheat]

eatmorewheat - I'm curious about your comments. A large percentage of the milling capacity is owned by US mills - the same companies that buy wheat from the CWB in the US.

Do you think they would stand for some kind of uncompetitive pricing?

The pricing mechanism the CWB uses has been developed in conjunction with the Cdn Millers Association. So given your comments that the domestic market is getting gouged, it's ironic to note that the formula is based off of Mpls cash prices and was developed by the millers themselves.

You again reinforce as a miller that you want lower prices. If the prices were lower than what is available, we'd face dumping charges on our processed goods - how many products that go across the Ambassador Bridge at Windsor every day have flour in them??

This process is fair and effective and has everyone on the same playing field, with the milling participants agreeing to the pricing mechanism. Sounds like you might have some sour g****s with some of your colleagues.

Tom

[AdamSmith]

Vader,

Do you really believe the stuff your saying? Do you even know what your saying?

You write "I don't blame you for not wanting to share this with other Canadian farmers."

Well gee thanks, but what your really saying is, Adamsmith it's only natural for you to be so greedy and unconcerned with others, that's why the CWB is there to force you to do the right thing and share with others, isn't it?

Typical socialist psycho-babble.

You also write: Warburtons has become a high profile premium market as a result of your advertising. Perhaps you should keep this information to yourself. I think that is called "commercially sensitive" information.

You lost me here Vader? I think you're trying to make a point but be damned if I can figure it out?

About the spider and fly thing, what can I say except my personal experiences in selling all of my other crops is that the open market is nothing to be fearful of plus I'm too old to believe in the boogieman (sp?).

[ianben]

Tom
To be a customer dont you have to have choice?

I think you still see CWB as a buyer of grain not the competative seller I see in your dual market.

Perhaps the only way to learn is by experience. OOch!!

Asking a customer how we can best fill his needs must help in acheiving sales.

As I tried to imply even in a commodity I think just a small edge can make a difference.

Is the CWB an edge as far as your customer is conserned today.

I bet JD poll at least twice a year.

Who cares what people thought in 96 thats history.

Sorry but to even quote such figures if they are the most recent available shows the job the CWB is doing.

I had hoped to move the debate on with new information instead of this endless churning

How about it? Anyone going to send a customer an email.
I only quoted Warburton as an example as its the only customer I know and are unique I believe.
so not ideal
Vader
Why is the CWB different from the auctioneer in the cattle industry except that the ballot is replaced by the pool as a way to decide whos lot will be sold first.

Unpriced grain sorted into lots and sold to the highest bidder for a comission. A good way to sell in a shortage and a disaster in a glut.

The biggest difference I see is that competition keeps cattle comissions in line and the CWB?

Cant you see why other people would want to market differently.

[ianben]

Just a thought. I bet Warburtons are checking out the Ukraine.
Do you have the edge??

[bobn]

Thalpenny,

You stated:
"Curious eatmorewheat - if you feel overcharged by the CWB, yet contend that the farmer is underpaid - where do you think the money goes? "

The money just disappears in bureaucratic and corruptive waste. The CWB is just another middleman taking a huge bite out of our income. It has been proven over and over that about $1.00 per bushel just simply disappears when comparing what the US farmer gets as compared to what we get through the CWB. To top things off, the CWB likely overcharges customers like eatmorewheat to pay for more red tape and patronage.

An example of this waste is the forced shipping of grain east instead of west. How much political pressure is there for this when the Prime Minister and other ministers have a vested interest in eastern grain handling operations?

How can we ever know, when their is no mechanism to prevent such a thing from happening. The federal liberals have proved dozens of times that their not opposed to corruption, so why would we believe it doesn't happen at the CWB?

Another point I'd like to make is, why are you so critical of a customer, accusing him of having a hidden motive?
Shouldn't one look into his complaint?
From anything I have studied about marketing, "The Customer is King" and every caution should be taken not to offend. It is exactly this careless disregard for both the Farmer and the Customer that only a monopoly buyer and monopoly domestic seller can get away with. The CWB has never had to earn the respect of the farmer nor the customer, acting like a BULLY on the block!