Refugees

[mustardman]

I believe, to understand the migration problem in Europe you need to look to recent history for the causation and change what is causing it.

The majority of the migrating people are presently Syrians. President Assad has held power in Syria since the year 2000. The US State Department contends that the Assad Regime has committed ongoing atrocities against it's own citizens dating back to the last Bush administration. A interesting curiosity of this is that in those ensuing years of alleged atrocities no significant outflow of refugees had departed from Syria.

The refugee crisis began when the conservative government of Canada ordered our CF-18's to conduct 733 bombing sorties to destroy all infrastructure in the similar country of Libya where it's government officials and forces may be situated. It's unclear whose planes bombed the presidential convoy on a highway where Libya's president was subsequently beaten until near death and shot in the head, leaving that country with no functional form of government or justice to date.
Canada contributed a disproportionate amount to Libya air strikes: sources

This was the tipping point in the Middle East. The realization that countries subservient to the USA such as Canada and many others will not allow any nation at or nearby the energy rich region to have self government if that government is not subservient to the United States State Department. Saudi Arabia is a classic example of this, a non democratic repressive state that has systematically destroyed the infrastructure and self defence equipment in neighbouring Yemen to restore a puppet government that the US insists upon and virtually no one in Yemen wants.

ISIS found a way to create government in these power vacuums that bombings and sanctions create.

It is US sanctions against Syria that are the causation of the refugee crisis coming out of that country. The government of Syria has simply run out of the resources needed to care for and defend it's upward of seven million internally displaced people from the radical elements in the region, as it has for decades.

The Syrian people do not need foreign countries to seek immigration to, they need relief from sanctions of the United States of America which are linked below. And to deniers, yes the Canadian government is a part of the causation of the migrant crisis, the photo of a dead boy floating in the water just caught the attention of simple minds.
https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-...Fact_Sheet.pdf
.

[stonepicker]

charliep, i've never once said aboriginal women weren't without problems or issues, where are you coming from with that?? How many studies have been done in the last 50 years? Lots! The native issue in north america has been a tragedy, especially for the children. I guess giving them free money ,special rules, self-gov. etc. hasn't worked. Maybe if they had been treated like everyone else in the first place we wouldn't have this mess. The ukrainians, french, mennonites, scandinavians, etc. have all kept their culture alive in MB. and also following the laws of the land in the process. So i don't think the natives would lose their culture either.

[parsley]

Forage,
Peter Hitchens articulates what I would say to you if we sat opposite each other at coffee row in your hometown. So I'll post the link to his article for you, so you can grasp the Islamic revolution that is taking place, as hordes of young, rich Islamic men, as part of another highly expensive organized event, march into and through countries. Demanding. Arrogant with oil money. And on a mission.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html

Think about it forage, and decide who and what you are, and who and what you want your family to be,

There are times in everyone's life when you really have to stand for something; something you believe in. Eyes wide open. Unafraid.

This is one of these times.

Parsley

[bucket]

Parsley

That's a good read.

Thanks for his point of view.

It seems that in small doses with the intent of assimilation, small doses of these people would be ok.

But that's the problem in canada now, we don't want new people to adapt our values, we are to adapt theirs.

That's not right, but it will become dangerous.

We should protect our values.

[riders2010]

That's another point also. Many refugees we think about are poor etc these ones are not. Look at the interviews they are almost demanding what they will do in the countries they are going to.

In Canada one day they are flipping burgers at macdonalds next day they seem to own rhe store which most Canadians cannot ever do. And then you find out they recieved all this free money to live and set them selves up and on top of that foreign refugee loans and grants to become business owners. Wtf is going on here. And I heard yesterday both out federal and provincial gov want to assist them further to own canadian businesses. What about supporting actual Canadians that are here already instead. How stupid.

The more I see on tv interviews the more it's plain to me they are on a mission. We need to wake up here.

[parsley]

Money is not the goal of an Islamist. Serving Allah is; spreading religious doctrine is; religious world domination is the real goal.

We are up against a religious doctrine.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/a-message-from-a-former-muslim/

Rider, we have been told over and over what the goal is: a world of Islam. I've been studying this for too long. But I can tell you one thing. Take fanaticism seriously. Islamists are, after all, dead serious. A heaven with a stable of virgins is not a bar joke. Parsley

[parsley]

Saudi Arabia is the centre of learning for Islam. Where scholars live. Where money is dispersed.

Where the word of Islam is sent out.

Think about this. If you banked $IB per day, and you wanted to sell your religion, who would you buy off, so as to get onside with your message? Offer them a fat contract? To pitch your message to the ordinary people? To get sympathy for your religion? To make you look good in the work? To connect your dream worldwide? To convince. Every day. 365 days per year in every language.

Yes. Well. Parsley

[parsley]

About aboriginal women Charliep. Most aboriginal women are killed by aboriginal men. By their own. By their own families. Police records have tallied. Many aboriginal are ****d by their uncles and afathers and cousins. Over and over.

A study will accomplish repeating what we already know. That's good for you? Makes you feel good?

How many aboriginal women will want to go through a public testament, saying their sister was killed by their father or brother of uncle? And then go home to her family.

Makes you feel good?

The best thing, imho, is giving aboriginal women property rights on the reserve. That way, her husband cannot beat her and bannish her to the city if she has some ownership.

Accountability, financial accountability, on reserves will bring about better dispersal of treaty funds. This will help women. Property plus money

You already know this Charliep.

But I will clearly answer your question: I don't have any faith in an inquiry until these two changes ... Property rights and audits, are running smoothly on reserves, and are accepted by band councils.

As for honour killings in Canada l, I believe the legal magic number to date is 13, where women have been legally found to have been honour killed.

The number is not the issue. The fact that there is even one honour killing is unacceptable. And the fact that several of the men who committed the honour killings, claiming it was legal in their eyes because they only abide by Sharia Law, is an abomination, and should be headlined in every newspaper across Canada.

And every Islamists' pledge to Sharia should be confronted by each and every one of us reading this thread.

Islamists believe only in Sharia Law. Believe. I didn't say conform to, but the boldest amongst them tell the courts they will not abide by the rule of law.

We must stop immigrants and migrants and refugees who are willing to enforce sharia law from becoming citizens.

Before you are outvoted.

Parsley

[charliep]

The answer was in regard to stone pickers question - "And charlie P, how many honor killings do there need to be in this country before it
's relevant to you?"

The obvious answer is none.

I only make the comment the same standard should apply to aboriginal women if you want to make that argument.

You guys want to make the arguments around politics and social policy. I want to recognize that refugees are also human beings trying to leave a very bad situation. The refugees are simply the tip of the iceberg. They wouldn't be risking themselves and their families if they had alternatives.

I agree an open door policy in Canada is not the answer but I have a lot of concern/pity for my fellow human beings. There are no second class citizens in the world that deserve what they are going through regardless of religion. I recognize I am saying this from my nice warm house in a land of relative peace with a functioning social system and all the benefits this provides.

[parsley]

There is a language bill in Quebec that will be voted on in a few weeks. It will prevent anyone in Quebec from saying nasty things about Religion , publicly including Facebook and twitter. And it appears a special Hunan Rights commission will decide what the nasty is, who should be punished and what the punishment is.

The Muslim organizations are very very supportive if this legislation. The premier of Quebec is a doctor who practiced in Saudi Arabia for quite a few years, and also served on SA's Heath commission. He seems to like this bill that has the teeth to quiet French voices condemning Sharia Law in their province

Someone upped the Islamic ante Parsley

[charliep]

Just to highlight again, I live in a sectoral/multi cultural city. This doesn't both me and in fact I enjoy it. I have friends of all faiths including Islam. I can and will have discussions with them about the issues you raise. We have that kind of friendship that I can talk about difficult issues.

Strange to have this conversation in a blog about crop marketing. Maybe says something about the privileges we enjoy in that politics trumps the everyday activity of managing a business and providing for a family. Most of the world doesn't have this privilege with the day consumed by the simple acts of putting food on the table.

[parsley]

Ignore what you see? These are all young men streaming out of Syria. The clothes the young men wear. The iPhones. The cockiness. The way they treat police. They way they head for rich countries
They are not refugees. They are invaders. With a purpose.
Why would any good man who is a refugee leave his wife and children in Syria if they are running away?

Refugees are people whose lives are in danger.and I agree there will be some people whose lives are in danger. But not the strident streams invading Only Western countries.

"Stefan From Helsinki once again contacts the Tundra Tabloids with an exclusive report on how ”refugees” in Finland (and elsewhere throughout Europe, many who are not actually refugees themselves) are using a highly sophisticated criminal smuggling system(s) to bring themselves to Helsinki.

A criminal system that issues false passports, fake visas, with smuggling handlers to guide them along their way ensures that a naive European populace, with an uninterested investigative media, are being taken for fools.

Here is Stefan’s story.


A serious criminal element in the refugee / asylum industry.

Stefan from Helsinki

Because of my profession these refugees will tell me what they refuse to tell journalists or border control, police or whatever.

I was very curious how this whole smuggling route works. I found out some things about it that should be known by everyone else, the media and the proper authorities. So I found out the real truth, not the sugar coated stuff, or the sub stories that they sell to the press, so I tried to find out from a guy who was particularly talkative, the other day, how does this work actually. If someone would want to take this trip, how he should do it.

He told me from the very beginning of the route, till he came here, and he said it’s practically what everybody does. The whole trip costs anywhere between 16-20 000 dollars, no less. He also said that in Tehran, for Afghan and Farsi speaking people, all of the smugglers are Iranian, former refugees or Iranians already living here.

It’s a vast network around Europe, and it’s divided between the Arabs and the Iranians, they each have their own smuggling route, and that there is a big retribution if they infringe on each others territory, like, if an Iranian will take someone from an Arab route and vice versa.

So he said that if an Afghan or an Arab wants to come to Europe, there is a place in Azadi Square, a famous landmark in Tehran, he said that in some part of this square the smugglers have, not like an official shop, they just walk the streets and offer their services to young people, and it usually works like that.

They say: ‘I’ll take 16 000 euros or dollars, and take you to Munich Germany”. Usually the route is from Tehran to Munich Germany, that is kind of the usual route. Then they transfer money after this. I asked, ”who paid for you?” he answered that ”my father paid for me”. He was an Afghan, a semi-illiterate guy and sure that his father is even more illiterate, so definitely they are criminals. No semi-illiterate Afghani can have access to that much cash.

So, his father guarantees a certain amount with an illegal money lender in Tehran, there are such like that there, illegal black market money lenders there, they sell illegal foreign currencies there and so on. If you go to the bank, you can only get a certain amount but no more. If you need more then you go to this illegal currency lenders which are operating in the black market.

So they arrange with a third person in Tehran to exchange their money when the person is already in Germany, and calls home and tells the father that he’s made it to his destination in Munich, and then they send their money through this illegal lender to guy, the smuggler and his network.

So, they fill their lorries, usually with Afghani and Iranian young people, and go through the Turkish border, and sometimes there are difficulties at the Turkish border and they can’t get through directly, so they go through the Kurdish-Iraqi border and then go to Turkey. It’s because the Iranian-Turkish border is a little bit, now, more difficult to cross, but usually when they want to cross the Turkish border they have to bribe the border guards. He says a couple of thousand is enough and they bring big lorries full of refugees and give the money to the border guard, they cross the border and take them to the place where they have to get into these dinghy boats.


He said that the people who pump air into the boats are Turkish, but all of the boats are Iranian. He said that there are two different branches, the Arab branch and the Iranian branch and they own all of the boats, each groups bring their own compatriots.

Then they pay a few more thousands to the men with the boats for going across the way, but all of this is done through some kind of credit system. It’s very complicated. Money really doesn’t exchange hands while they are traveling, nobody trusts anybody, but all this network gets paid.

Then they arrive at their destination and call the person who guarantees them in their home country, like their father or some other person, he will pay to the smuggling network in the country of origin. They send the money which ever way they can to each other.

So they come to the Greek island of Kos, or wherever they are taken, and after that it’s not over, still there is a vast network of smugglers in Europe that guide them. For example, one of the reason why these (European) organizations that offer them food and water, they see them throwing the food away, some of them have a deal with the smugglers that, food room and board and travel are paid for. They already get help with that from the smugglers, they don’t need the Red Cross or anything.


He said that in Greece, he went to the house of the smuggler and stayed with them there, with his wife Then they bring them through Macedonia, Serbia and guide them. Like I said, each language group has their own path, they’ve divided the territory and the walking paths between each other. Each takes his own group through the designated path for their smuggling group.

They are then taken to Hungary, where they have tickets purchased for them, because they don’t know the language, they don’t know what to do, so they buy them the tickets too. They put them into the right trains to go to Austria and then to Germany. Then some body else picks them up in Germany and tells them what to do, like taking them to the police or wherever to get them registered.

They (smugglers) tell them what to do, what not to do, what story to tell, where not to go, they inform them on all these matters. If by chance someone doesn’t want to stay in Germany, they want to go somewhere else, to go further, they have to pay an additional fee, which means he will go either to Denmark, Sweden or Finland.

He said that he came with his wife to Germany, but he didn’t like it, because it was too crowded so he wanted to go somewhere else. His handler, an Iranian with a Swedish passport said, ok, I have my car outside, I’ll drive you and your wife to Sweden. He ended up staying over at the house of yet another smuggler in Sweden, and after that, he complained that Sweden (refugee center) is too crowded as well, and was offered a trip to Finland. He was handed off to another smuggler in Finland and came here.

They now said that things are fine here, and they plan to stay.

He said also for an additional fee, if you have lots of money, they will make for you false passports, one from a country that’s in conflict, and one that’s just a normal country. One with a German visa on it as well for you.

So I asked, why do you need a ”normal country’s” passport? Because they want to lose the trail afterward, it works like this. He said that a relative of his had a certain ”Asian look”, (some Afghans have those features) the smuggler made a Chinese passport for her. She pretended to be a Chinese national and they put a German visa in it.

They flew all the way to Germany, since she had a visa she wasn’t fingerprinted, she went from the airport, threw away her Chinese passport and headed for the refugee center and claimed to be an Afghan refugee who came by foot.

So that’s how it works. There are lots of fake passports. He (Afghan refugee in Finland) said that there’s a vast majority of fake visas and passports.

This is a very criminal enterprise. The people who are coming are by no means wealthy, many of them are just criminals, not all, but the ones that I have seen are coming are pure criminal. He named places and names to me, that he drove from this city to that one, he lived in this part of Germany or in that part of Greece. He told me everything.

If he had money to go to Europe, he had money to live in Turkey, people are so gullible and naïve. I feel that if this whole operation was the emphasis in the newspapers, public sentiment would turn against them very quickly.

Also, he said that the people (Syrians coming with the boats, 99% of them used to live in Turkey before even the war started. He said that they’re all rich kids. It’s true, I’ve seen them going around Helsinki with taxis, you see them. They are very wealthy, the Syrians that are coming, they are not just down trodden, poor. The real refugees that are Syrians, are either stuck in camps in Syria or in Turkey.

Of course I can’t trust everything that the Afghanis say about the Syrians because they hate each other, they don’t get along with each other at all in these refugee camps, they have really tense relations. The Afghanis I’ve talked to say that these Syrians are partying all night, they have a lot of money that they throw around while collecting the Finnish welfare money and act horrible towards them. I have seen this myself, quite often they (Syrian refugees) call taxis and go into town from these refugee centers.

The Afghans are not really Afghans, like from the Pashtun province example, they are all from Iran, some even born there, most of them actually. The Iranian Afghans, living there, are in safety. I’m not saying that there is good conditions, but they are in safe conditions."

[parsley]

The West has indeed an enviable lifestyle, Charlie, where we have decided to not behead our neighbour because he goes to a Baptist church. Where people actually invent. Get out of bed and go to work in the morning. Where respect
and dignity are not only expected in our social exchanges, but are taught in our traditional religious institutions. It's been uncommon to find religions who teach that looking into a friend's eye and lying through your teeth is not only acceptable, but honourable.

Our culture is quite a miracle.
It's called civilized.

And Canadians have come to take it for granted.

And that's why we have become dismally naive.

Parsley.

[stonepicker]

Well said.

[sumdumguy]

Now, with technology to fabricate any document, including name change, birth certificate, passport, how in the world would any official be able to check any immigrant's background?