Frost advisory for tonight.

[furrowtickler]

I will spend a nickel to make a quarter though if I can half way to the finish line and things are going good . If not I agree , that nickel stays in my pocket , not in someone else's pocket before the start line .

[furrowtickler]

Saskcan , Did you try it ? Or going by hear say ? If you never had a side by side on the same field on your farm your statement is hear say . Nothing works 100 % all the time including traditional fert - especially on a dry May, June, July period.
BTW - where did that comment come from ? Many farms ? Name them , I know a few , but I know more that It worked that it never - fact .
What's proper nutrient levels ? According to who ?
I am glad that what works for you - well, works for you - but thinking outside the box is not wrong either.
What's a progressive farm ? Yours ? Good on you. Progressive farms come in many sizes.
A lot of progressive farms in this area are staging their fert now more than ever - with what I sell or others sell - doesn't matter - just a differerent way to approach fertility is all .
Point is that all traditional fert "experts" , dealers and equipment dealers drual over guys that go all in up front - good , bad or otherwise .
And ya will keep top dressing as needed if needed if weather and crop conditions are conducive to do so.
What does it cost to gain 15 bus/ac and 1 point protein with conventional fert in wheat? Prob 30 to $40 /ac I believe . No more than foliar with a lot less equipment and cost of time at seeding . Foliar feeding and or top dressing has been a mainstay in many other countries and many progressive farms in every other part of the world so why not here ?
Again my dig was on fert experts - not farmers - everyone does their own thing - certainly had nothing to do with you . Good luck on harvest - unless your a "fert " dealer , then you just being an ass .
I deal with a lot of guys with much more and less expensive equipment - doesn't matter - I am just trying to make what they are using more efficient and hopefully get as good as crop or better. There is a lot more to it than the actual cost per pound of N.

[saskcanfarmer]

Yes I did have it side by side on the farm as well as numerous other like products over the years. Always willing to try something small scale if the science matches! Split apps can work imo but the same level of success can be had from much cheaper products. And you're right cost per N has nothing tondo with anything. All about ROI. Let's no sugar coat things. You are one of the experts with a motive. You just sell a different product.

My assumption is you didn't go all in this year and even thou your yields are respectable you left something in the table or you put on all the nutrients you plannes on and gambled that the weather would change. Dry at herb timing dry at fung timing why would you add more??

Absolutely nothing wrong with thinking outside the box but bashing tried and trued techniques, virtually laughing at them is where you are wrong. Equipment savings etc etc get chewed up substantially by the cost of the product versus "traditional" products. Different to be different doesn't make one better then the other.

Proper nutrients are determined ultimately by me. I know my farm better then anyone. I've seen the numbers over the last many years. I know what I can produce using x number of y. If we had a true drought where is my unused NPK?

[furrowtickler]

At herbicide time crops here were still growing very well, and they responded well according to tissue tests. And yes I adjusted how much we put on by the end of spraying the reseeded canola. Only put fungicide on a few wheat crops that we were saving for seed and also added 1/2 the rate of foliar we used last year cause of dry conditions. Overall we put on 60% of the foliar we used last year because like you said why spend the money if not needed in dry conditions. And your assumption, well ya I wish I would have did the second app on all wheat - we left 8 bus/ac on the table. Did not think it would work that well in dry conditions.
Agree other products are cheaper but very few can be applied with herbicide or fungicide safely.
So what crops did you put Kugler on? And what rates? What were the results? What kind of fertility did you have already on at or prior to seeding? Did you get it from me? The list of guys who tried it last year is fairly small. This product was new to this area only last year.
Last year yields were flat on high end fertility and around 20% increase with mid fertility rates with foliar.
So you are correct, the ROI not there in some high fertility but paid 3-1 in mid fertility 80% of the time. Protein did increase in most of the wheat with high fertility. We took one guys 80 bus wheat from 11.5 pro to 13.7 but no measured yield response - done just on combine yield. That was $.77/bus on protein alone. That paid very well. Another very progressive farm south of here also seen a 1.5 to 2% increase in protein on wheat on high fertility, again the ROI was very positive.
In crops with high fertility on three other farms there was a flat response to any additional traditional fert in mid season as well.
Last year late season disease onset on most crops limited most high end yield potential regardless of fertility used.

[bucket]

Furrow

Some companies are not paying protein premium over 11 percent on durum. On that crop there would be no ROI.

[furrowtickler]

This year you are correct - those numbers are from last year.

[furrowtickler]

Saskcanfarmer - I specifically remember you saying last year that you never used Kugler and most likely never will on your farm . So kinda confused as too if you used it or not ??

[furrowtickler]

That second app was $15 that got the 8 bus/ac on hrsw - at $6.25/bus so net was around $35 /ac or close to that 3-1 ROI again . So far that was the average on 4 fields and 3 customer fields . An ave gain on protein this year was less than a 1/2 pt , most likely due to already high protein numbers in all wheat and other cereals .

[saskcanfarmer]

I probably did say that but I have tried damn near everything. Have to put your money where your mouth is!

Is that ROI over and above using their actual full fert rate at seeing time or?

[furrowtickler]

Just did - 2 years in a row . If you never tried it don't dis it . Don't say you've tried something and slam it if you've never used it - that looses credibility awful quick. I thought something did not sound right with your statement - maybe just a typo .
Stop over sometime and I will give you all the results from last year and this year thus far. And the list of guys that actually used it and their phone numbers . Not coffee shop b/s .
Assumptions very rarely turn out to be true.
Good luck with harvest and I hope you never froze too much last night if you have crop that is venerable.