Chuck -- the do nothing gag minister

[AdamSmith]

Mustardman, you may be the only person who reads this site who didn't recognize burbert for what he was/is,

a troll.

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.

You can read every posting and not one, ever has offered anything constuctive or positive.

Not all wheatboard supporters on this site are trolls in my opinion, but burburt clearly is and deserves neither consideration or respect.

[jensend]

here i thought this thread was about chuck strahl! his suite of programs is a joke they cooked up in a short afternoon and won't be implemented anyway. it has absolutely no new blood. if grain farmers are thinking this or any other govt. is going to give them what americans get they're dreaming, esp. if the economy slows down you'll be the first to feel the pinch. pretty low rent adamsmith.

[parsley]

Does quick action necessarily mean good is done?

I thought this was an interesting read:


The Politics of Grain
Larry Weber
DTN Columnist

Tue Aug 21, 2007 07:01 AM CDT

Pride and Prejudice -- Inside Canada's Wheat Board

Some interesting quotes and
comments as seen by DTN
Contributing Analyst Larry
Weber.

"The power of doing anything
with quickness is always prized
much by the possessor, and
often without any attention to the
imperfection of the performance."
Jane Austin - English novelist
(1775-1817) -- Author of Pride
and Prejudice


My wife, Heidi, has been on a Jane Austin kick over the past 45 days. So much so that her obsession has found me constantly listening to her explain how the book has moved her.

I haven't read it; however, I've been subjected to countless reruns of the same movie that for many nights, I thought I was part of Bill Murray's Groundhog Day --Look! It is 10:00 PM and we are starting out the same as yesterday -- watching Pride
and Prejudice!

Rather than disengage, I found it might prove beneficial that I at least
study part of the characters and as I did, became acutely aware that the similarities between Canada's marketing board and some of the cast were stunning.

But then for me, everything works back to politics and grain. And yes, I am not normal.

After 26 years in the grain industry, I am somewhat jaded, cynical and at times,contemptuous but when I came across the quote from Pride and Prejudice, it stopped me dead in my tracks, like a deer in headlights, just before vehicle impact.

For me, it summarized what has been inadequate with the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) policy direction over the past 20 years.

For years, whenever Canadian farmer sentiment towards the CWB turned sour,
executive management always reacted quickly to quash any uprising with a new invigorated (in their mind) CWB that half-heartedly addressed their concerns with the promise of a new invigorated CWB that listened to their requirements.

When I read Chairman Ken Ritter's comments after a Canadian judge quashed the open market for barley state that status quo is not an option for the CWB, I too fell into
the decade's long trap that the CWB will change.

When the Fixed Price Contracts were announced last week, I saw that nothing has changed and Ritter blew smoke upeveryone's backside, yet again.

The CWB had ample time to give farmer's new pricing tools to enhance cash flow and could have even gone so far as set aside a certain volume for farmer's to export their own product without interference or cost from the CWB.

That would require vision.

Vision has not been part of the landscape at 423 Main Street in Winnipeg for a long, long time.

It all boils down to pride and prejudice. The CWB is too proud to put farmer's well being ahead of their own and too prejudiced to think that they can operate in the same environment as they have within the last 20 years.

Instead, Canadian farmers will have to live with more ad hoc changes. It brings me full circle to the quote at the start of this post.

What the CWB believes is making
progress, is being judged by farmers as an imperfect performance.

Best they not conduct any polls or have a vote on their existence anytime soon.

There is nothing they can do today to stop the rising concern across the Prairies save for no cost export permits.

That would require vision and past performance would indicate that it has been imperfect.

Today there are only two options -- change or be changed.
Choose wisely.

Larry Weber can be reached at: larry@webercommodities.com

[AdamSmith]

Of course it was low rent jensend. That was the whole point. This whole episode is low rent.

It's 20% of production demanding that the other 80% of production bow down to their negative approach to farming and probably negative approch to life in general. And when we don't they become indignant as all hell that we don't share their negative views.

It's eastern and urban Liberal politicians ramming their ignorance and greed down western farmers throats.

It's wheat board supporters offering zero in the way of evidence to support their position,

it's the cwb themselves causing a half billion dollars in western Canadian wealth to evaporate in the blink of an eye.

It's people who think they have a stake in this industry but don't, or their stake in the western grain economy is limited, that are the loudest and shrillest proponents of the current dysfunctional system.

So spare me your indignation jensend, because there is nothing more indignant and repulsive as forcing others to surrender their individual rights of property ownership and for no other reason than pure envy, ignorance and greed.

[jensend]

harper & co seemed to have such a clear vision when they were in opposition you'd think they'd have had a ready to go program the day they got elected. face it, these guys are the same as the last bunch, they'll take your vote and run. i always voted to the right but i could care less who's in govt. now. it just doesn't make any difference. remember the special canadian grains program mulroney gave us - it was only a billion but it paid out significant money to producers. those days are gone; the value is in the announcement and not to the producers. give it up, your boys are no better than the last bunch.

[jensend]

i'm not indignant; i'm just not impressed. the other point to be made is that if burbert farms only a fractioon of what you do it doesn't necessarily make you more intelligent or more correct. it means you have more at stake but perhaps you're wrong. i think the cwb has to go. i just don't think it will make a darned bit of difference to the welfare of canadian grain farmers. i also don't think western canadian farmers mean any more to harper than they did to the libs but at least the libs didn't hide their disdain.

[AdamSmith]

"...if burbert farms only a fractioon of what you do it doesn't necessarily make you more intelligent or more correct. it means you have more at stake but perhaps you're wrong."

My opinion of burbert is based solely on his postings, the fact that he farms 400 acres and is/was nearly broke (his words) only enlightens us all as to where he is coming from(thought wise). He has, like all cwb supporters, never once offfered us any sound and factual evidence to support his opinion that the cwb has value for farmers, to any farmer, be it 40 acres, 400 acres or 4000 acres. His postings are nothing more than rants which seem to be grounded in fear and insecurity.

And yes I have posted my fair share of rants on this site, but at least I try to offer the alternative solution to what I may see as a problem. I use sarcasim when I believe it serves a purpose but I don't rely on it solely nor do I rant on and on as if there is no solution to the issue.
-------------------------------
"...i think the cwb has to go. i just don't think it will make a darned bit of difference to the welfare of canadian grain farmers."

I do believe it will have a huge benifit for the welfare of farmers.

an extra $60 - $100 per acre of net revenue will have a huge positive impact on farms.

This extra revenue will be generated many ways, from the simple fact that all wheat and barley will trade for higher prices upwars of a $1 to a $1.50 per bushel more. The aborted free market in barley has shown us that. Barley will be worth more, Winter wheat will be worth more, all wheat will be worth more.

Canola basis levels will improve especially post harvest, because farmers will no longer be forced to sell so much canola after harvest in order to generate needed cash flow.

Variety development will catch up to the rest of the world because we will no longer be stuck with a outdated and illconcieved KVD grading system. This will will increase production and in this ethenol driven world we are now entering will add great value.

The systems costs will be reduced which will add value to farmers. Read any of the many postings chaffmeister has made on this subject to get a better understanding of the high costs
that are forced on farmers by the single desk system.

More business will get done and done quicker thus putting money and wealth into the hands of farmers quicker, thus reducing the annual interest costs to banks and lending institutions bore by farmers.

Once existing farmers start seeing these real improvements in our businesses and our industry in general, a healthier attitude and brighter outlook will start to take shape thus making the idea of grain farming more appealing to that next generation of farmers. So maybe, just maybe they will choose the dusty haze of a evening harvesting instead of the big lights of the city.

So, if your not impressed with how I responded to burbert, fine. But I and many others are not impressed and dare I say frustrated with the people who seem determined to squelch any optimisim that may emerge within this industry. It's as if they're afraid of success.

[agstar77]

A.S. I think you just went on a rant. Why is it a rant? Because you have no proof we would be better off without the CWB. We would be in the same position as the Americans but without their government subsidies. Yes it is strange that their system is so good that they need all those subsidies.

[jensend]

i think when the cwb goes it will mean more revenue to canadian grain farmers but no difference in the bottom line. agstar made the point perfectly: you'll be an american farmer without the same level of government support. you'll still have the imbalance in the markets between buyers and sellers for both inputs and production.

[AdamSmith]

"...Because you have no proof we would be better off without the CWB."

Agstar, try listening to other farmers, just once. Maybe pull out your calculator once and cruch some numbers. Try reading lots and from many sources, the internet is a wonderful tool for accessing information. Ask questions and listen to the answers for a change.

We've had posters from England (Ianben) and Australia (Malleefarmer) all report the huge prices that feed wheat and barley are fetching farmers in those countries. The American system is open and transparent with respect to prices and levels of trade and basis levels.

All show cwb prices as being dismal. Not good enough for you, well it is for me, I'll take that type of real world evidence any day as proof, you stick with U of S studies if you wish but they won't change anything that isn't really happening, now will they?

Agstar tell which kvd cwb approved variety of wheat offers fusarium resistance, and leaf and stem rust resistance? ND has a few of them but I guess that's no proof because the information hasn't been vetted through Richard Grey.

What about the Quarum Groups evidence on costs????? The cat has gotten your tounge on that one many times before, want to give it try now??? I thought not!


So just once I would appreciate all your evidence to the contrary, it would be so helpful. Again I thought not!


Your simple statement of proof not being any proof at all is all we have ever seen from you guys at the cwb, Agstar, and that may work at the traveling cwb revivals, but it has never cut it here on Agri-ville and it doesn't seem to be cutting it out in the wheat and barley fields either.

[Fransisco]

American farmers make more money than us on their wheat way before the subsidies even start to kick in.

Price comparison after price comparison with the CWB shows this.

So yes agstar bring it on, I am very much in favour of it.