Forage Seed Market Freedom

[Burbert]

I see that the forage seed market, is booming along as usual. It is an example of an unfettered truly, free and open market. Cheating and lying are everyday occurrences receiverships, out of business signs, didn't get paid. The market itself drags on for years and years and years, stumbling and fumbling, low low low prices. The occassional star, glowing red hot, guess what red clover seed is a really good price, out of this world. Oh I forgot to tell you, nobody is interested in buying red clover seed, so you can't get the high/high price that is quoted, sound familiar, phoney baloney, manipulation.

[tower]

It would be really funny if it weren't true. the other thing you didn't mention is the ambitious companies trying to get monopoly control so that they can manipulate even more. Plus there is a rumour that the manipulation might not be in the farmers best interest.

[parsley]

Farmers can chew manipulation and speculation and predictions to pieces, as long as they have THE STICK available in their toolbox.

THE STICK is the ability to export.

Freely.

No CWB working behind theur backs.

If farmers do not like what domestic companies are doing, farmers can pick up their grain and go home to move it internationally, when it comes to forage seed.

Nothing like 'no supply' to entice better prices from domestic companies.

And if your supply has moved on to better markets, threatening divorce, look forward to flowers, candy, and cash.

Parsley

[charliep]

tower/burbert

Perhaps you can enlighten us how single desk would work for forage seed. Talking mechanics of price pooling, etc.

I would note that volatility is a normal part of the forage market. Most Peace River forage producers know how to use contracts and/or are quite willing to store from periods of low prices to higher ones.

Would the CWB forward sell forage seed on behalf of farmers the way they have with malt barley (ie. forward price without any farmer agreement to deliver)? Would they forward sell anything or just become a bigger farm type speculator? The question comes down to the services they would offer growers and how they would manage risk for them? Similar questions on their role within the supply chain.

[sumdumguy]

Think the grower gets shnookered on every deal?

[tower]

Some of the same companies that are in the forage seed market whether export or domestic are also in the grains and oilseeds business. Those that aren't are still trying to cream as much off the farmers as possible in order to maximize corporate profits.

The export stick is pretty much busted. It has been possible from time to time for individual farmers to search out those niche markets and profit from it. And it would be terrific if all of us could do that, It ain't going to happen so long as the scales of efficiency are accepted to favour the large buyers over the small sellers.

charliep do you assume that grain companies don't forward sell for their own benefit? I don't know if some central marketing agency could or couldn't serve the forage market better. Such agencies have a tendancy to corruption and self serving policies. However I think that we have a better chance with that kind of thing than with companies that have an even bigger tendancy to be self serving and more corrupt than a farmer elected board.

Actually sumdumguy I do think that primary producers from the loggers and fishermen and miners, to grain producers and the cotton workers are generally shnookered on every deal. I think that our economies are based around the concept of really cheap feedstocks for industry and retail sales. The cost of energy is the one variable to this but you understand who controls that market.

[parsley]

What nonsense you spout, tower,the similarity to Vader's claptrap is uncanny.

For years, China touted central-planned farming, but since they have begun to trade and become part of the world around them, the standard of living for ordinary citizens has risen.


Think worldly instead of inwardly.

Think bold instead of piddling your pants every time you send an email to a stranger.

You might actually began to enjoy farmeing.

Parsley

[tower]

parsley, for the sake of anyone who may check out this thread I think you should apologize for your comments.

China abandoned central planning before Mao Tse Dung died and it's been the rich get richer and the poor become slaves ever since.

think globally and act for your farm instead of for your supplier/creditors.

Do you enjoy farming parsley? Do you farm, Parsley?

[highwayman]

Tower
I think it is you who needs to apologize for you comments for insinuating that farmers dont have the intelligence to look after their own marketing affairs in a fashion that suits their own business needs. The doom, gloom you spout surrounding an open market situation sickens the vast majority of farmers. You need to get past your ideology and respect the property rights of your fellowman. Lets move forward as an industry together instead of divided over an issue that should be ones own personal choice. I do farm and have enjoyed it for 27 years.

[Fransisco]

Beginning in late 1978, the Chinese leadership has been reforming the economy from a Soviet-style centrally planned economy to a more market-oriented economy that is still within a rigid political framework under Party control. The reforms replaced collectivization of Chinese agriculture with privatization of farmlands, increased the responsibility of local authorities and industry managers, allowed a wide variety of small-scale enterprises to flourish, and promoted foreign investment. Price controls were also relaxed. These changes resulted in mainland China's shift from a planned economy to a mixed economy.

The result has been a 6-fold increase of GDP since 1978. Chinese economic development is among the fastest in the world, and has been growing at an average annual GDP rate of 9.4% for the past 25 years.[53] At the end of 2005, the PRC became the fourth largest economy in the world by exchange rate, and the second largest in the world after the United States by purchasing power parity at US$8,158 trillion.[54] But with its large population this still gives an average GDP per person of only an estimated US$8,000 (2006), about 1/5th that of the United States.

There has been a significant rise in the Chinese standard of living in recent years. Today, a rapidly declining 10 percent of the Chinese population is below the poverty line. 90.9% of the population is literate,[59] compared to 20% in 1950.[60] The life expectancy in China is the third highest in East Asia, after Japan and South Korea. There is a large wealth disparity between the coastal regions and the remainder of the country. To counter this potentially destabilizing problem, the government has initiated the China Western Development strategy (2000), the Revitalize Northeast China initiative (2003), and the Rise of Central China policy (2004), which are all aimed at helping the interior of China to catch up.

Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China#Economy

[Fransisco]

According to Chinese statistics, the population in abject poverty was reduced from 250 million to 26 million during 1978 and 2004. The ratio of the very poor to the total rural population has been reduced from 30.7 percent to 3.1 percent.

source:
http://english.people.com.cn/200505/28/eng20050528_187219.html

[Fransisco]

Homer Simpson: "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true."

[Fransisco]

No need to apologize tower.

We all understand that having a -liberal- attitude means never having to admit that your wrong, just that there are various degrees of being right.

[parsley]

I don't enjoy engaging with the ridiculous, but sometimes one has to deal with headlice dead on.

1. Over 40 of the state-farm managers were on our farm, tower, so perhaps I do have a little insight, that of course dims in your self-appointed brilliance, but nonetheless represents aggregate, first-hand data.

2. We have farmed for only 39 years, tower, so perhaps you consider that fledgling experience.

3. Suppliers? Could you tell me to whom you refer? Not chemical or ferilizer companies! Perhaps our bagging equipment suppliers! Your reasoning lacks measure, tower. Ah, you do SO remind me of Vader.

Apologize, for what, grasshopper? You have much to learn about your peers. And about what your writing reveals.

Parsley

[tower]

highwayman, are you insinuating that I'm insinuating?

Unfortunately marketing intelligence isn't the only thing needed for success. You need market presence as well, and again occasional individuals have that niche product or market to be successful, but individual grain producers taking on con agra, adm, tyson, etc. won't even be noticed as the big wheels keep on turning.