winter wheat buyback 107.00/tonne

[disker]

I looked into buying back some winter wheat to ship it to a feedmill in the US that we buy feed from and I was told that I would have to pay 107.03/tonne or $2.91/bus. I have never asked about this before so there may be more to it yet but is the CWB really taking $2.91/bus for handling etc. I was told that I could use the FPC to price the wheat to the board and then I would pay the 107.03/tonne back to them to get my wheat back. I don't think I even had to move the grain, that was just to get the export permit and I don't know about freight, elevator charges to do the transaction etc.
I suspect there is some extra built in to prevent too many guys from buying back but I was thinking the number would be less than $1.00/bus.
All I can say is WOW!
Disker

[kamichel]

Some more questions to ask. What does it cost to buy back organic wheat? Parsley should comment, as I thought now organic producers have a simpler lower cost buy back. And also why should your wheat be any different?

[parsley]

Interesting questions.

First of all, I want to say whether or not you are organic or you are conventional, the CWB will not provide you with an interprovincial license to ship a load of milling wheat ferom Alberta into a flour mill in Ontario.

They refuse the interprovincial license.


Now the CWB insinuates, they are only going to charge a fee.


Obviously they don't read their own regulations, which states:

"14.1 The Board may grant a licence for the transportation from one province to another, or for the sale or delivery anywhere in Canada of wheat, wheat products, barley or barley products, but no fee shall be charged for such a licence"



So good on you for wondering what the hell this feee is all about.

Parsley

[disker]

OK I found some clarification on this buyback. The 107.03/tonne is over the initial price, so for yesterday you would have to pay 247.03/tonne to buyback your CWRW Select 11.5 protein. This is non organic as the CWB rep I was speaking with said the organic system is different and I would have to speak with that dept to get a quote.
So, if I was to buyback my grain yesterday and price on the FPC I could have done it for $7/tonne for the CWB's part. I am still checking on elevator costs etc.
Sorry for the confusion/heart attacks
Disker

[liberty]

Disker,

Could you outline this process step by step starting with the wheat on your farm and ending with the wheat in a U.S. elevator, just to clarify it further?

[parsley]

2007-08 Organic Fixed Spread Contract (OFSC)$/mt

JAPAN:
Wheat $5.20
Durum $15.02
Barley $3.38
Designated Barley $3.38

European Union:
Wheat $3.71
Durum $3.38
Barley $3.38
Designated Barley $3.38

USA:
Wheat $3.38
Durum $3.38
Barley $3.38
Designated Barley $3.38


CANADA:
Wheat $3.38
Durum $3.38
Barley $3.38
Designated Barley $3.38


Parsley

[melvill]

Parsley, I'm obviously not a lawyer and have no desire to be one but I'm curious about your interpretation or your lawyer's interpretation of 14.1. I note that the phrase "The Board may grant a license . . . " doesn't say "shall". My lawyer tells me that "shall" is the one to look for since it means the same as "must".

As usual the devil is in the details.

[parsley]

The legislation says the Board may (and obviously the converse.. may not) grant a license.

So u have to ask, why deny?

Deny all women?

Deny all baptists?

Deny all Ukranians?
Deny just Drummhellerians?

What basis can the CWB deny upon?

Surely you would agree the law would take not take kindly if all Hamilton, Ontarians were denied a CWB license, based upon an arbitrary CWB decision!

So we u have to resort to the constitution.

Answer this question:

Can licenses be denied based upon location?

If your answer is yes, then Hamilton farmers could indeed be in trouble.

Parsley

[melvill]

Parsley, as usual you have pretty compelling agruments and, on an intellectual basis, I don't disagree with you.

I talked to my lawyer-friend after the Calgary court decision. He was quite unequivocal about his comments. His optinion was that when interpreting law the literal interpretation is more likely the one that will carry the day. My own personal lawyer also pointed out that the law is not necessarily about what's ethical or moral or "right". It's about what parliamentarians thought was the best solution at the time the law was passed. Of course, we all know that, for that reason, some legislation become out-of-date over time.

He also had an interesting comment about the potentially larger implications of the Calgary hearing. He suggested that if the feds had won, the case was likely to head to the Supreme Court because of the precident it would set. The reason? A number of other interest groups, quite removed from grain production, might be very worried about the implications to other legislation that could be changed without parliamentary approval. It's likely the Calgary judge had that in mind when she handed down her decision, although I'm not bored enough with my life to resort to reading judicial decisions for recreation. Wonder if tom4cwb has read it?

[parsley]

You have to read history.

Notes from the parliamentarian's meetings were very clear at the time.

They wanted a national tariff.

They did this through licensing.

They didn't apply licensing to just the West, they applied identical licensing reqirements to all of Canada.


If they wanted to license differently, they would have made licensing applicable to the DA onlyin the Part III marketing part of the Act.

You are right. We have to go with the legislation that was written, and it so happens that is to be applied equally to all applicants throughout Canada.

However, the CWB made an in-house secret policy decision to deny licenses to only a select group of farmers in a select area.

Substitute that with denying licenses to only catholics.

And chew on it for awhile.

And see if Canadians would be pissed.

Parsley

[disker]

Hi Guys,
This is what I have gotten for a procedure but still unsure of elevator costs and what happens with freight deductions. Interesting that you have to go by contracts and calls, although I wa

CWB Producer Direct Sales

The intent of the Producer Direct Sale (PDS) process is to give farmers the opportunity to capture U.S. market premiums they identify, while still maintaining the integrity of the pooling system.

This ensures that all farmers have equal access to returns from premium markets and at the same time allowing an individual farmer the opportunity to capture marketing advantages. PDSs are treated similar to an accredited exporter approaching the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) with a bid for Canadian grain.

To apply for a PDS, the following criteria have been established.

1. The farmer needs a valid CWB delivery contract and delivery permit book.

2. A delivery authorization and call for the grain must be in place. The CWB may issue an advance call for delivery.

3. The farmer or elevator manager (on behalf of the farmer) must obtain a daily producer direct export price (cash sales price) by calling the CWB at 1-800-275-4292. The CWB Sales department must verify the price quotes.
(Quotes for spring wheat are based off the Minneapolis futures prices and are quoted basis instore St. Lawrence / Vancouver. Other grains are based on North American competitive values).

4. Farmers must negotiate with grain companies as to administration charges. It is up to the farmer to decide if the PDS transaction is worthwhile. If the farmer proceeds with the PDS, the tonnes, grade and costs involved must be established.

5. Once a PDS transaction is agreed upon, the Grain Company must complete a sales contract with the CWB on behalf of the farmer.

6. Standard sales contract terms such as a 30-day delivery period and 5% tolerance on weight will apply. The sales contract is legally binding and requires the farmer / Grain Company to pay the difference between the CWB cash price and the initial payment to deliver the grain.

7. The Grain Company (on behalf of the farmer) must apply for an export permit from the CWB Export department (204-983-3569). The CWB must also be provided with the farmer's name, address, the Custom's port of exit, the destination, the consignee at final destination and the quantity and grade of grain to be exported.

NOTE: It is important to notify the CWB immediately if the Customs port of exit is to be changed. The CWB will take steps to ensure proper changes are made to the export license. Export permits expire sixty days from the date of issuance.

8. The CWB will provide the Grain Company with a sales contract and an export license and will also forward the necessary copies of the license to Canada Customs.

9. Farmers should also ensure the U.S. vendor obtains an end-user certificate from the USDA. It is the U.S. Government that demands these certificates to import Canadian wheat.

10. The Grain Company will issue a producer certificate to the farmer for the grain, which reflects the initial payment for the grade and tonnage of grain in the PDS transaction. The farmer is now eligible for all future adjustment, interim and final payments on that grain.

11. The Grain Company, on behalf of the farmer, is the accredited exporter and is responsible for contract execution. If the contract is not completed, the CWB will collect any monies due the CWB from the Grain Company.

12. Farmers should contact a Customs broker for information on U.S. duties. The U.S. Customs at the point of exit can be contacted for broker names.

NOTE: Farmers should be aware of the recent (March 2004) 14.15% duty on CW Red Spring, CPS Red and CW Extra Strong wheat. The importer of record is responsible to pay the duty.

13. The farmer and/or trucker transporting the grain for export must stop at Canada Customs to deliver two copies each of the export license and the bill of lading. Canada Customs will stamp and return one copy of each to the farmer/trucker and will return the second copy to the CWB. Failure to stop and report to Canada Customs is an offense under the Customs Act, and is subject to penalties under that Act




Reference: March 30, 2004
Producer Direct Sales

s told that this could be sped up.

[TOM4CWB]

Disker,

It is disgusting discrimination that the CWB forces commercial growers through grain company agents rather than the CWB export license system developed for organic wheat and barley feed manufacturers and seed growers/sellers.

It normally costs 3 to 5 times to do this through an agent of the CWB vs. direct as organic folks are allowed to do. Seed grains are directly issued export licenses through the CWB... as are feed manufacturers through blanket export licenses... as are Ontario producers B.C. and Eastern Canada. It is just a scheeme to stop the business from getting done for/by "Designated Area" grain growers.

WHy aren't the Producer Direct Sales prices transparent and posted on the internet like PPO FPC DPC pricings? I have requested this for years.

The CWB has a very long way to becoming commercial and fair on these problems... on top the CWB Act is clear that the cost being charged on export licenses is to be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Account of the Government of Canada... and revenues raised for export licenses returned to the Federal Gov... NOT the CWB pool accounts.

It has taken years to get to the point of bringing this before the Federal Court Trial Division... the CWB has delayed many times over our attempt to make them follow the CWB Act.

The case file # is : T-612-06 Renova Holdings vs CWB et al.

[charliep]

Quote - "WHy aren't the Producer Direct Sales prices transparent and posted on the internet like PPO FPC DPC pricings? I have requested this for years."

Will ask CWB when I see them later this month.

For those who are lucky enough to do a DPC, the CWB made the following commitment:

Quote: "As part of the DPC operating guidelines, the CWB is also committed to keeping the spread between the DPC and the Producer Direct Sale (PDS) relatively narrow and stable with the proviso that under exceptional circumstances, the spread could be widened to protect grain that was required for the CWB marketing. This provision has never been exercised. The linkage between the PDS and the DPC provides farmers with the assurance that both the DPC and PDS will track the average price to cross border elevator prices for grain of similar quality. If the DPC price is low relative to an elevator across the border, then selling to the U.S. using the PDS should be attractive. Conversely, if the PDS is high relative to the cross border prices, then the DPC is also likely to be high"

Source: http://www.cwb.ca/public/en/farmers/producer/daily/

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

When you see the CWB it would be resonable to remind them that the DPC offer was totally inconsiderate, unreasonable, and unacceptable to fairly distribute the DPC tonnage to all "Designated Area" grain growers.

Every grower should get a fair shot at doing some volume... the way it was allowed to occur was absurd.

[charliep]

May not be your exact words but will be questions about the quick sell out of the DPC.