Ritz WTO position??

[Fransisco]

What exactly is so tolerant of putting a gun against your buyers(the consumers head) and saying , "thou shalt only buy from me and at my price"?

[TOM4CWB]

Fransisco,

What does any system do? Exactly as you have said.

It matters not which system operates... each one does the same thing and has the same outcome.

How do we balance the outcome to most fairly meet the needs of our brother/sister... where ever they are on this little blue planet third from the sun?

Is government regulation more evil than indexed funds distorting the futures value of our crops? Or Ethanol/biofuel adding 25% to the value of our grain crops?

There is no "free ride"... how we choose to manage our affairs will determine the fruit we produce... are we going for "positive" out comes that encourage prosperity?

[parsley]

Tom4CWB,

You are clearly have a "moment" here.
It's okay.


We've all had them at one time or another. Some of them are just harder to get over.

Parsley

[mustardman]

For once I agree with Tom, he's right on with his take on this issue.

[Fransisco]

I demand to know what you have done with the Tom who was in favour of 'voluntary' transactions? And who has taken his place?

All systems are not created equal, not by a long shot. You are now advocated coercion and saying it's no big deal.

What happened to your morality?

[Fransisco]

And want to talk about practicality and prosperity?

225,000 out of 250,000 Canadian farm families depend on trade.

Without canola exports Canada would need:
-30,000 fewer canola producers
-10 million fewer acres
-Equivalent of 6 fewer crushing plants

Without wheat exports Canada would need:
-21,000 fewer wheat producers
-19 million fewer acres
-Equivalent of 4 fewer milling plants

Without beef exports Canada would need:

-37,000 fewer beef producers
-A 40-50% smaller cattle herd
-Fewer processing plants –accounting for about 5,500 jobs
-3.6 million fewer tonnes of feed grains.

etc,etc. on and on down the list we go.

Tom which of your neighbors exactly do you want to volunteer to make this work?

Would you yourself be willing to volunteer to leave the business for the good of everyone else left in it?

[Kodiak]

HELLLLOOOOO......

What about the position of the Government of Canada in the WTO negotiations? Has anyone seen a letter to Falconer from Ritz advocating for a reduction of trade distorting tariffs, improved market access, or elimination of subsidies by the US and EU for grain and livestock producers? Where do you think his and the governments priorities lie? Has he given any of us assurance we will have our legitimate interests looked after?

[chaffmeister]

The letter is addressed to Falconer, but perhaps its real audience is the Liber-pals and the Bloq.

There are those that have suggested that if the Cons govt is going after the CWB, all controlled marketing systems are at risk. "Stop them now! First it's wheat and barley, next it'll be milk and cheese!"

If I was in Ritz's position and I wanted to take heat off my CWB position, I'd probably try the same thing.....

It wouldn't be the first time a politician said what he thought would help him.

Just a guess.....

[grassfarmer]

Ditto mustardman's comments - I absolutely agree with you on this one TOM4CWB. Too bad your buddies are so quick to turn on you with their "blinkered intolerance" as you put it.

It is a fact that the consumer in Canada usually pays less for milk than their American neighbor does. Clear proof that a "free and unrestricted market" does not necessarily return more to the primary producer or give a better deal to the consumer.
Yet in the beef sector organisations like ABP spend our levy dollars campaigning to put our dairy farming neighbors out of business by destroying supply management. Perhaps some of you could tell me how this will improve net returns for primary beef producers?
Who would buy more beef from Canada if we didn't have supply management in the dairy, egg or poultry sectors? How would any potential increase in exports result in more dollars going into producers pockets?

[Fransisco]

Grassfarmer surely you jest.

<blockqoute>Montreal, August 23, 2007 – As the commission on the future of Quebec’s agriculture and agrifood sector begins its hearings, the Montreal Economic Institute is estimating that supply management of milk, eggs and poultry costs at least <b>$300</b> extra per year for a family of four. This amounts to $575 million for everyone in Quebec.

Under the supply management system, consumers’ interests are secondary, In Canada, <b>the price of milk has risen 53% in the last 12 years, double the rate of inflation, whereas production costs actually declined by 3.8%</b>. This is reflected in consumption, which has fallen 18% for milk and 30% for butter since 1980. Consumption for milk is forecast to decline a further 12% by 2020. <b>There exists a huge gap, over 37%, between retail milk prices in Quebec and prices observed in the United States. For eggs, the gap is 55%. Chicken sells for twice as much at the retail level.</b></blockqoute>

[Fransisco]

As to who would buy more beef and how we would get more money into producers pockets that's simple.

There are lots of countries in the world that are right now playing tit for tat. Canada doesn't let in milk, chicken and eggs, other countries say fine then we don't let in beef.

We lower our protectionist trade walls they lower their protectionist trade walls and we get to sell more beef and have more buyers competing for the beef we got which drives the prices up.

[TOM4CWB]

Franny,

In our last CTEAM module... Quebec UPA did a presentation on Agriculture both domestically in Quebec... and Canada wide.

They turn the tables clearly on the position... that 90% of all CDN Ag production is Export Oriented.

The Facts and proof they present spells out the facts they present... which are as credible as Export Thumpers...

70% of all Canadian Ag Production is directly oriented to domestic Canadian trade... only 30% is truly export driven off shore and not integrated.

From a more "european" perspective... from an environmental perspective, from a perspective of energy conservation... domestic integration and co-operation all are much more important over the long haul... 25-50 years... than the position that Exporters claim benefit "Short Term" from a historical perspective.

Let me ask this:

Why should I depend on Milk from New Zealand, sugar from Cuba, or oil from Saudi Arabia for my families needs?

Economic Theory is interesting to study...

Reality is a meld of real world application & a combination of balances...

DO we truly expect a balanced physical life & Planet?

Capitalism based on greed and individual ambition driven by that greed; is no better than communist ideology that takes the same property away for a different reason... Both can be without consideration of/for others and their communities... and can therefore considered truly evil!

[chaffmeister]

Grassfarmer says: “It is a fact that the consumer in Canada usually pays less for milk than their American neighbor does.”

Montreal Economic Institute says (via Fransisco): “There exists a huge gap, over 37%, between retail milk prices in Quebec and prices observed in the United States. For eggs, the gap is 55%. Chicken sells for twice as much at the retail level.”

I think this is what is considered a “credibility gap”…and grassfarmer is on the wrong side.

[mustardman]

Francisco are you saying that we Can't have one sector of the ag section Consistently doing well ??

Don't tell me that by getting rid of the egg and milk marketing board that we are going to benefit.

The Other side is using this like a ransom note. They told grain producers the same thing about the crow " if you only get rid of it we'll end our subsidies" Ya right . Don't get fooled again.
As far as milk demand dropping you only have to look at the coke machines on every corner , in every school, kids with a 5 gallon slurpy coming out of 7-eleven to know that milk consumptions will be hurt.
If I AS A CONSUMER HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR MILK OR CHICKEN SO THEY CAN BE PROFITABLE -GOOD. There should be more of the food dollars going to producers in the Rest of the ag sector as well. The Profits should not only be made by the Westons, the General Mills the Tysons etc etc.

[Fransisco]

Mus then you better be ready to pay more than everyone else for every single one of your inputs as well.

The dairy guys are getting 50% above world prices for their milk. Maybe all of the people you buy things from deserve the same kind of mark up as well, after all we want to be fair and balanced right.