Ritz WTO position??

[TOM4CWB]

Northfarmer,

THe real challenge is to seize the opportunity to make our supply chains tighter in a manner that can return more to the farm gate... if folks are willing to do the work and take the extra risk.

Any system CAN work... if those responsible are responsive managers who respect the assets and property of those they are responsible to.

I must add... Perhaps the CWB has even fulfilled this mandate to the "Trade and Commerce" sector they are responsible to... from a consitutional perspective... there is perhaps a better case for the CWB to manage the "Pro-Bono" domestic feed policy... than to maximise the returns to "Designated Area" barley and wheat producers.

This is why I am emphasising the point... the CWB Act as we know it... must be revised from "Trade and Commerce" based into Agriculture Jurisdiction (which includes shared Provincal responsibility)... CONSTITUTIONALLY.

Why on earth should only wheat and barley be different than every other single Agricultural product we grow?

This was a mistake... in thejurisdiction with wheat and barley... brought on by the Second World War... that STILL must be corrected!

We have promised our WTO trade partners that we will solve the CWB mistake... now how do we create consensus leadership and do the job?

It does matter what Quebec thinks Franny... the Bloc were the force that got our CWB accountability issues past the House of Commons. There is a real and important reason to work together!

Reminds me of the Joke about how to die!

A grandfather always had said; he wanted to die in his sleep... quietly...

He did one day!

Just sad the other folks involved in the car accident died screaming and in pain!

[TOM4CWB]

Saskfarmer,

Yust how much subsidy, in the US, goes into reducing the cost of that cheese?

I consider the $9 I pay for my 907gm block of cheese a very fair price... and good value for my money! Healthy food... for a fair price... in comparison to other food items in my shopping cart!

[Fransisco]

And comrade Tom what in a free market would prevent you from paying a Kings ransom for your cheese?

[TOM4CWB]

Frisky,

In case you hadn't noticed US subsidies are close to "supply management" support by CDN Consumers...

So the answer very well could be: US Government subsidies of Milk/products!

2001 OECD Report

US; 86-88) 99-01] (Year]
WHEAT % 49) 46]
Oilseeds 8) 26]
Milk % 60) 51]
Beef & Veal: 6) 4]
Pigmeat: 4) 4]
Poultry: 13) 4]
Eggs: 9) 4]

Canada; 86-88) 99-01] (Year]
WHEAT % 45) 15]
Oilseeds 25) 14]
Milk % 61) 54]
Beef & Veal: 10) 8]
Pigmeat: 5) 8]
Poultry: 18) 2]
Eggs: 22) 19]

Interesting perspective... which was in essence at the base of the UPA point made to us.

Consumers in the US pay wide ranging prices... that are not stable... and US Dairy growers have a hard time dealing with the big income shifts... which forces a trend toward integration and a move away from the traditional family farm.

[liberty]

"Consumers in the US pay wide ranging prices... that are not stable... and US Dairy growers have a hard time dealing with the big income shifts... which forces a trend toward integration and a move away from the traditional family farm."

Sounds exactly like the situation in Canada. According to the last couple of Stats Can farm surveys, dairy and poultry farms are disappearing at a far faster rate than any other type of operation. So much for preserving the family farm.

I've done a couple of surveys on my own of dairy and poultry prices between the U.S. and Canada, and Canadian prices are significantly higher (at times more than double) what consumers pay in the U.S. The "surveys" by the dairy lobby get the results they want by carefully manipulating data. Why else would they keep the core data of these surveys a carefully guarded secret?

One of the other costs of supply management is that Canada's dairy and poultry sector effectively prices itself out of the export market. Consequently, we give all those jobs and value-added opportunities to less leftist nations such as Australia, New Zealand and the U.S.

Supply management is, on any level, an utterly indefensible proposition.

[parsley]

The issue should never be about money.

If money is the be-all end-all, we may as well just go out and knock the weak on the head and take their belongings.

The issue is about what method you adopt to get the money.

Forced participation or forced exclusion from participation is always unaccaeptable amongst those who reason in a civilized society.

We must be able to choose partners, choose religion, choose what house we want to build, choose what we want to study, and so on.


Choice is the building stone of a desirable society. I acknowledge that we will make foolish choices.

Forced participation is the issue here.And anyone who understands supply management realizes that forced participation is what is at issue.

Let's not forget it.

Parsley

[parsley]

A little too much money?

King's ransom?

Hmmm. I believe Tom4CWB will head for that unjustafiable the escape hatch.......and drive straight into the arms of the freemarket system in the USA where he can buy cheese, or say, a car?


Parsley

PS

I think Tom4CWB has been playing cat and mouse with us.

[TOM4CWB]

Frisky... Parsley... WD9...et al...

"Ritz WTO Position??"

What is the workable solution?

[parsley]

Doesn't matter whether it is Ritz or Fritz or Switz,any programe that uses for force...jail, fines, coercion etc....is not worthy of being defended.

Doesn't matter if it's in Zimbabwe, or Lima or Lac St Jean.

Forced participation is indefensible. That is a world message, Tom.

And you know it.

Parsley

Parsley

[Fransisco]

Tom I have noticed what you point out with the OECD data. I have no argument with the statement that US dairy is also heavily subsidized. That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it 'free enterprise, capitalism'

I think both variations of subsidy are wrong. Whether you take the money from a taxpayer or a consumer you are still taking what doesn't belong to you by force and giving it to someone else who doesn't deserve it. And for the most part consumers and taxpayers are the exact same people anyway.

But if you want to split hairs while all taxpayers are consumers all consumers may not necessarily be taxpayers. The poorest of the poor on the streets today pay very little in tax's some may not even pay any. But they do have to buy food. And I find it unconscionable that the poorest of the poor in our society today are forced to pay double or triple what a product is really worth to line the pockets of multi-millionaire dairy farmers who keep crying 'poor me, I just can't compete in that big bad world out there'.