Ritz WTO position??

[stubblejumper]

Didn't take long for the Canadian farmers for just me to start stabbing each other in the back.

[Fransisco]

Kodiak I share your frustration with our position on trade.

Here is a link to what Conservative Guru Tom Flanagan has to say about the overall Conservative strategy which I found enlightening. Though I don't agree with it.

http://www.c2cjournal.ca/public/articles/29

Apparently it's all about 'incrementalism'. And we have all seen how well that strategy has worked for them with the CWB. They have taken more grief in the press with this go very slow approach than if they would have just gotten rid of it decisively. But they have yet to learn their lesson. And as Gerry Nichols points out in a lot of cases they are going in the wrong direction.

[Fransisco]

Gee that's funny grassfarmer when I do a google search on "agricultrure and Agri-Food Canada, basket of various dairy products" the only thing I find is the 1991 piece referenced by the dairy folks. I can't even find the study. Is that all you've got?


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada %28AAFC%29 study%2C basket of various dairy products &btnG=Google Search

[Fransisco]

Ahh, its amazing what a little digging around on the internet can get you.

Here are some of questions people have about the <b>DFC 'basket survey'</b>.

Some observers suspect the survey is only conducted in border cities with historically high prices. Others wonder whether they are surveying
comparable stores.

The “basket” itself is in question because it seems weighted towards products, such as skim milk powder, where the Canadian price is closer to the world price. <b>As one cannot disentangle prices for individual items such as milk from the whole basket, it is very difficult
to figure out just what is what.</b>

This sounds more and more like the CWB 'secret data-set' studies all the time.

And one thing we do know is that they never made a very important adjustment for <b>Purchasing Power Parity</b>. Because it is not just enough to compare Canadian retail dairy prices to US dairy prices. You have to consider Canadian retail dairy prices in the context of all Canadian prices. Canadians pay what Canadians can afford and Canadians boys and girls are not as wealthy as Americans(a big thanks to all you socialists for this).

Adjusting for Purchasing Power Parity at the time, Canadian retail dairy prices would have to have been 19 percent lower than US retail dairy prices to be as affordable to the average Canadian as to the average
American.

So grassfarmer your survey is a bust.

[TOM4CWB]

Franny,

Here is the Challenge.

Take the CTEAM Course from the George Morris Centre. I have binder upon binder of information, presentation after presentation by supply management folks... 100's of hours LISTENING to their side. NOW YOU DO THE SAME. Adam Smith, the same... every one of you... honestly with your eyes open.

I respect private property rights, you know I do.

What of my 7 points don't you get?

Talk about avoiding the issue.

If I were Minister Strahl, or Minister Ritz... I know what I would be forced to do.

Western Canadian grain growers don't mean diddly squat in political reality... we fight each other... stab each other in the back... won't co-operate or even try reasonable changes... 50,000 spoiled brats.

I would prefer an Ontario Wheat Producers Marketing Board solution above all else! That is the essence of my purposal.

I need to help accomodate that change... PLEASE think outside our little sand box for a minute... and lets get something going here!

The brain power in this thread is MUCH more innovative and creative than what the "right wing" has presented here...

What do you think the average Canadian thinks walking into a grocery store?

THis is HEAVEN on earth. We have the best food, the highest quality...Fresh high quality food everywhere in every store... that anyone in Canada can afford ... we are living in the most prosperous country in the world!

So how do you propose we get this CWB issue solved... in a manner acceptable to Ontario and Quebec?

[grassfarmer]

Hey Franny, you say "..its amazing what a little digging around on the internet can get you. Here are some of questions people have about the DFC 'basket survey'. Some observers suspect the survey is only conducted in border cities with historically high prices. Others wonder whether they are surveying
comparable stores."

Wow, real powerful arguments you make there "some observers suspect..." and "questions people have..." kinda like a man in the pub told me this so it must be true.
Whilst you were trawling the internet for witty responses I don't suppose you came across anything relevant to the beef questions I asked you?? No I didn't think so...

[Kodiak]

OK. Does anyone (a couple of you have replied) think the Canadian negotiating position at the WTO is on track to accomplish the objectives agreed to at the start of this marathon? In a nutshell to refresh -- to reduce the distortions and unfairness in international trade brought about by protectionist measures from the world's trading nations, particularly the wealthiest, and to elevate the economic opportunities of developing countries.

I have said from my perspective, our Government is on the wrong track. Others? If you agree, what should be done about it?

If you don't agree, what do we need to do domestically (realistically and fairly) to re-balance our different ag sectors?

How do we move forward with a position of integrity and bring benefits to the most in the ag industry that we can?

[Fransisco]

Actually I did answer your question on beef grasshopper. Looking for a little more meat are you? Fine, chew on this.

The average tariff rate for beef around the world is 80%.

Its also one of the most subsidized in the world, coming in at a 34% of total value average in OECD countries. In the EU its 68%, Switzerland 76%.

60% of all the beef produced in Canada is exported. We are the third largest beef exporter in the world. Our beef producers receive very little in the way of subsidies and have no tariff protection.

So connect the dots, it's not hard. Even a slight reduction in the amount of protectionism around the world will result in, not only, a significant increase in the volume of beef that Canadian Cattlemen can effectively sell abroad, but also the price that they will be able to sell at.

Now getting back to Kodiak's point, how do we effectively get other countries to lower their protectionist barriers while at the same time refusing to do so ourselves? The answer is obvious, it ain't gonna happen unless supply management is on the table.

[FarmRanger]

Sorry Kodiak, I just want to respond to grass farmer one more time.

The quote you posted was from the Dairy farmers of Canada website - http://www.dairygoodness.ca/en/trade-and-industry/supply-management/supply-management-support/quality-products-at-reasonable-prices.htm

The quote is: “In March 1991, an Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC) study found that a basket of various dairy products was 11.45% cheaper in the United States compared to Canada. Since July 1996, however, SURVEYS (not AAFC studies) show that the same nutritious dairy food basket has been consistently more expensive in the U.S. than in Canada.”

It is subtle, but there is no claim that AAFC did studies since 1991. Who did the survey’s, under what protocols, commissioned by whom, for what purpose?

Grassfarmer said ”paranoia about communists has led you to adopt an almost communist style dictatorship on here where free speech isn't allowed”

Who said anyone wasn’t allowed to speak? A little friendly ribbing that asks Tom to clarify something that seems inconsistent with his previous stances isn’t exactly shutting down free speech.

[wd9]

Yes, the schizo position Canada has once again taken is an embarassment to those negotiating and will be a serious negative impact to grains and oilseed exporters. This is bad, real bad, in case anyone was actually wondering.

The power of a strong lobby in action, something the g&o and other non-SM sectors simply do not have.