COWS

[SASKFARMER3]

If we could go back in time, After BSE hit wouldn't a Massive Cull of All animals over 7 Years of Age dealt better with the BSE situation then the liberal plan of Supporting the Feedlots and Packers?

[parsley]

Tom4CWB,


It's always useful to take a class and bring home some facts.

But ittakes another set of skills to assemble them coherently.

Are you takng another class on reason and logic, perchance?

Parsley

[grassfarmer]

Franny, you continue to show your woeful ignorance of the beef industry. You say
"Lowering trade barriers around the world for beef increases the demand." - really?? name me one country that is currently not importing Canadian beef because of our supply management industries.
"American packers seem to be more effiecient than our own, as such they are better positioned to increase exports." Who are our own packers? in case you hadn't noticed the packers providing in excess of 80% of kill capacity in Canada are American companies.
"So the U.S. would buy more cattle from us if we traded supply management for lower tarrifs world wide." - I repeat again the US does not withhold purchasing beef from us because of supply management - it has never been an issue.

This is without getting into the discussion on the difference between increased exports, increased prices at the beef sale end and net returns to beef producers(ie ranchers and feedlots) The "trickle down effect" most certainly does not work in our packer cartel controlled marketplace.

One thing that would open export doors for Canadian beef would be if we were to produce more to a hormone free, antibiotic free protocol - at least we know the EU would be a willing importer of such beef.

[grassfarmer]

Charlie P,
I missed your comment earlier. You say "the livestock people I talk to don't complain too much about the current run up in feed prices (recognize it is part of the market and a signal in a situation of declining feed grain acres)."
It's all very well talking to feedlot guys who are margin players that can keep going by bidding calves lower, but it's short term thinking. The problem with this is that cow/calf guys are fast bailing out - ultimately without a supply of feeder calves the feedlots are history.
It looks like another fall where the majority of feeder calves will be under $600. Not many of our current producers can survive on that.

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

Perhaps you could learn something from the George Morris Centre?

The 'Universal' CDN Neighbours we all have;... farm in Quebec and Nova Scotia, Ontario and PEI, as well as in western Canada. We all have much to lose if we are not careful how we negotiate the WTO agreement.

Protecting personal 'Economic Rights' is a quagmar of opinion, belief, and ideals... which often are short on fact and long on feelings!

Judging others... is easy to do, doesn't require much skill or thought, and often results in condemnation of one's own position and station in life by those who are judged!

I was looking for just a little balance here,,, some tolerance, a peck of Canadian innovation, and hope that we can better understand those who affect our lives... so everything is not a them and Us are enemies deal.

Quebec, Ontario & Eastern Canadian farm folks have just as much right to their opinions as we have...

That being said... I strongly believe the "Common Law" rights that base our Society... must rule.

A problem exists. We as Canadians have given the legal authority to Supply Management... Province by Province the legislation has been legally put in place authorising the schemes... and now some folks (people on this thread for instance) think they can take it all back (with one stroke of a magic invisible marker)... with a quick moral judgement... and a thumbs down sign.

Not the way it works folks... not on this planet! They will fight, just like we think we have the right to do... Like I had done... before I met a few of them and saw the beauty in what they do and why!

Reality Check: I stand for the individual's right to not have their property taken... without due process of law... Standing for the freedom to associate and work by themselves if they so choose;... if this can be done WITHOUT using the assets and property of others directly affected in the matter.

I believe a HUGE mistake was made by the Capitalization of "supply managment" Quota... as it was/is public property created by statute... Property of the state for the state and common good of all people.

How do we get out of this mess?

Some one some day will need to deal with this problem... in an articulate, sensitive, and caring manner. SM5 Quota is as much an asset to them... that is theirs... as either your or my grain sitting out in our grain bin.

Honourable Minister Ritz... must deal with this quandry... Minister Ritz needs innovative flexible solutions that bring us to a credible solution... that respects all involved... and is done in a civil manner.

Otherwise... how can I claim to meet the test of loving my neighbour as my self... and not coveting his property?

Being Honest, Just, and Fair... is not easy... one reason I would have a HUGE headache if I were GOD!

I sure am glad it is his position and authority to decide... who is right and who is wrong!

All I can say is;

God Bless Canada... no matter what you must do!

[parsley]

I've learned much from you Tom4CWB. There are few one cannot learn from.


But being consistent in applying what you learn is the trick to adopting a life philosophy.

Kill one day. Don't the next.

Stealing is wrong. But over there it is right.

Hmmmm.


Consistency is the key. And applying it what one needs to try to accomplish.

Baic premise I am defending is this:


If an idea is a good one, you do not need force to have people accept it.


Hence Supply management fails the test.


Basic Logic 100.

Try agian in th morning when you have a good night's sleep, Tom4CWB

Parsley

[Fransisco]

Grassfarmer, just out of curiosity, how much of what type of quota do you have?

[Fransisco]

On second thought how much is too personal a question and unnecessary. But I am curious which supply manged commodity you do hold quota on. Is it dairy?

[parsley]

grassfarmer,

"where the participants know something about the subject. "


uh huh.

Does calving out a big herd of cows every spring and all the yearling heifers besides for 22 years qualify me as knowing anything about the subject, or is that just reserved for the rude?

Parsley

[parsley]

I'd guess goats, fran. He got mine.

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley;

A real Tough call Parsley.

If a deranged person were after you, your daughter... grandchild...

Would you stop them from killing them and yourself; if it appeared it was comming to that?

I believe the laws of Canada say you have a right to defend yourself, or someone else under attack who's life is truly threatened.

Would I defend myself to live another day and serve my family and community?

I hope I would not be a coward... if your life were threatened... and help you survive!

My belief says... this would be

[charliep]

grassfarmer

Not underestimating the negative impact on the cow calf side. US buyers (even domestic guys) will be feeding animals south which will support price. Canadian barley remains an expensive feed ingredient. Likely makes more sense to haul calves to corn/DDG versus the other way.

For grain guys, the above is not a comment on right or wrong. Just a note in the margin based business that cost of gain in Canada is more than the US.

[parsley]

Tom4CWB,

Protecting a life cannot be compared to protecting your bottom line.

Parsley

[grassfarmer]

Fransisco, You seem to have run out of witty insights into the beef sector - wise move quitting while you are behind.
And no I don't hold any quota for a supply managed product.

Parsley, As a fellow beef producer I would welcome your contribution. In all the time I have read your posts I have never seen you mention beef or the beef industry. Agriville also has a beef forum.
With all your knowledge about the beef sector it is a shame your only contribution to this thread has been to nitpick the psychology and principles of TOM4CWB.
What are your opinions of the problems of the packer cartel, rising feed grain prices relative to CFOs. Falling calf prices etc ??

[parsley]

grassfarmer,

I have been a contributor on Agri-ville since its' inception, as has Tom4CWB, who is a very knowledgable contributor and a good friend.

I have covered a lot of subjects over the years. You can read in "Search".

We know longer have cattle, but I do have a lot of experience with cattle and the cattle business. Cow-calf operations, purebred operations, marketing, and so on. Redundancy gets tiresome.

I am interested in marketing chouce for grain farmers, an issue that most cattlemen want to avoid because captive Canadian grain means cheap feed for cattlemen.

I will choose what issues I will contribute to, and which I want to focus on and those I believe have the most impact on Canadian agriculture.

Hence the CWB issue.

Parsley