COWS

[Fransisco]

Actually you are wrong dalek, there would be an explosion of new chicken barns in western Canada. If I didn't have to buy quota I'd put a chicken barn next to my hog barn in a minute.

According to the OECD numbers the supply managed feather industries would have the easiest time transitioning out of all of them because, unlike dairy, the amount of subsidy they get is in line with what mainstream farmers get. Looking at the ten year period between 1994 and 2004 it bounced around from 7% to 4%.

Eggs would have a more difficult time but not that much more. Sometimes they are up in the 25% range but some years the world price of eggs is so strong it gets very close to zero.

And its amazing what you can pay for if you don't have to pay quota.

I don't see any reason why Canadian chicken producers can't compete with the rest of the world. We should be major exporters of the stuff and would be without supply management.

[parsley]

Dalek,

What absolute nonsense:

"Without SM, there's no Canadian feather industry buying grain."

Now if you'd said this:

"Without SM, there's no coddled Eastern feather industry buying captive cheap Western grain.", I'd believe it.

Instead of OBVIOUSLY trying to devalue a fellow farmer, you might want to make note of the most obvious observation:

Birch couldn't sell what he grows. In a supposedly free country.

That's your motto, Dalek. You are what you are. SM. My way or force. Jail. Fines.

I don't want you as my business partner, Dalek. Not ever.

Parsley

[grassfarmer]

Don't worry Dalek there is plenty hot air around some of these guy's places to keep your chickens warm!

[parsley]

grassfarmer,

You defend SM; a system employing force and jail, and you try to disguise your choice by attempting to humiliate the person critizising, much as dalek did with Birch.

All because you cannot defend what you believe in. How does anyone sane defend jailing a fellow farmer for selling what he grows?

And you think force is an attribute?
Keep it up. SM depends upon guys like you.

Puke.

Parsley

[jensend]

hey paisley, try the decaf!!!!!

[TOM4CWB]

Fransisco and Parsley,

It is great that you folks bring up the other side of dalek's argument... but without the CWB... supply management that use grain as a big COP... they will lose the 'Pro Bono' support from CWB policies and even the 'unintentional consequences' the 'single desk' pooling system creates.

Tell me Fransisco, if the cost of grains you feed went up by 15-25%... how quick would you jump on the band wagon to spend the millions to set up a competitive 50,000 bird system.

If you can build cheap buildings and automated equipment your self (to keep your COP down to afford high cost feed & labour)... then you are being much more than a farmer who doesn't want to pay out the $30/hr labour cost...!

With our high CDN$ we are sunk. Think about it. Domestic production goals are the correct policy now in any event!

[parsley]

Supply Management scheme a plan.

When the issue is condensed, it aint pretty, is it, jensend?

This is the premise:

Jail a fellow farmer for selling what he grows.

Tom's and grassfarmer's defense is ecomomic. It's a good scheme, they argue, because "my" pockets don't jingle.

Sometimes, you just have to look the issue in the eye.

jemsend avoids the issue

dalek avoids the issue

But it's there.

Ask yourself the question when you are drinking that decaff. Are you willing to jail farmers for selling what they grow because YOU want more money in your pockets?

Parsley

[parsley]

Tom4CWB,

Having a high Canadian dollar is good for our country. I wish we had no national debt either.

Would you like our dollar to be worth .40cents? How would you ever buy a tractor with a .40 cent dollar?


Canada does not have a thriving manufacturing industry, so we end up buying manufactured goods. Grain cleaners, for example. Is there better buying with a low Canadian dollar????

Good grief.

Parsley

[cottonpicken]

JESUS CHRIST!!!!

For your information parsley life is about to get pretty ruff for tens of millions of canadians.Canadian manufacturing is now dead which means ontario is dead.Inflation is flying and soon interest rates will be and if those rates dont go up inflation gets worse.

Mommy why is that man taking our car?

Mommy why do we have to live in an apartment now?

And guess what,where do think the wealth of resource rich western canada will be transfered to?

Ever here of a farmer remenissing about the 70's and how it was SO good?

Well the 70s were not good for everyone, infact most people suffered,it was a rescessionary period.

Who's the one that needs to read more?

[jensend]

so let's deregulate everybody and not test new drugs or have safety standards for cars and trucks. don't jail people for what they produce. your point of view is just as simplistic but deals with marketing instead of technology. it's just you get a whole lot more shrill about everything. i watched sm producers buy land for more than i could afford and i hated it but you know what - they were profitable. grain farming in western canada is a failure - it doesn't sustain itself, is unprofitable and has fewer producers involved as time goes on. we switched right out of the grain when we finally took a look at the bigger picture. best move we ever made. the cwb isn't the problem; the whole structure of the grains sector is with a huge imbalance in the marketplace where you buy your crop before you seed it and hope the same guys will buy it from you the next winter for more than they charged you for inputs. good luck with that. we finally figured out that no matter who was in govt. we were on our own and couldn't count on help from the taxpayer compared to other developed countries. my prediction is that within five years any farmer on less than about three thousand acres had better be going organic because the people in control of the industry will cost him right out of business and the guys over that size had better be willing to sacrifice a good chunk of their lives trying to stay on the treadmill. they already are but i don't see it changing. think i avoid the issues do you, paisley? no, we took a good hard look at it and decided we weren't here to turn over our equity to somebody a whole lot bigger than us. you seem to prefer to cry about that and blame the cwb (which, by the way, has to go because it is an untenable position now and is competing against itself which is a race to the bottom). if you think harper cares about you any more than chretien did - sweet dreams. but then if you woke up you'd have seen that by now. when the cwb goes then you can move on and try to deal with the bigger issues gacing farming. i don't think they'll go away so easily.

[parsley]

Long term:

When is paying off debt ever bad?

When is having our dollar valued highly ever bad?

Buying goods with a cheap dollar is good, cotton?
You want a 50 cent dollar?

Parsley

[Fransisco]

Tom, if you think that people are going to stop buying meat because it gets more expensive do to higher feed costs you've got another thing coming.

Trade in meat around the world is growing at a tremendous rate, with chicken being one of the most popular meats out there. And because of supply management we are missing the boat.

[parsley]

jensend,

If you had read my posts over the past decade, you would know that I lay a lot of the blame for where farmers find themselves, on governments...ALL Governments. Tinkering in Agriculture, meddling, favoring, intervening.

I do not depend on Harper or any Government to serve any industry except re-election. It is the nature of the animal, and hence the realization that inviting the animal to run agriculture is surely putting yourself at risk


I notice you avoided the premise.

"Farmers should be jailed for selling what they grow"


Anyone who bases their business on that premise is inevitably uncomfortable with the position they find they are defending.

In 1929, the MP's in Parliament would not acknowledge that women in Canada were "persons". Ask their great-great grandchildren if the premise was correct.

Some ideas are not defensible, jensend, even if you frame the author, instead of the idea, as shrill.

Parsley

[jensend]

farmers hould be jailed for selling what they grow. what a despicable 'premise'! (you must have missed where i said the cwb should go). if 'farmers should not be jailed for selling what they grow' is the cornerstone of your personal philosophy then i would expect you to be campaigning for the rights of poppy growers in afghanistan. your 'premise' is crap. there are limitations on everything and without them disagreeable persons (like some on here) would probably have been killed sometime in the distant past. if you want to say farmers in the designated area should not be jailed for selling crops legal for consumption produced in accordance with safe food regulations you nmight garner some support. or anybody who produces dairy or chicken safe for consumption should be allowed to sell their production; you can argue that. your 'premise' is simplistic garbage that you think you can defend but you, i'm sure, want restrictions on people, too.

[parsley]

You misunderstand what I am saying jensend, and I cannot understnd you, either.

So let's be clear:

1. Candian farmers should be able to sell what they grow.

2. "anybody who produces dairy or chicken safe for consumption should be allowed to sell their production"

"anybody" includes any farmer not in compulsory supply management. (There is SM that is not compulsory)

3. I have never advocated restrictions on people, nor will I.( Where you grabbed that form, I can't imagine.)


4. Milk/eggs/poultry Supply Mangement = use of force, fines, jail.


Parsley