COWS

[Fransisco]

Gee Tom what happened to combining today? To busy spreading the social gospel I see.

[Fransisco]

Tom, <b>all customers</b> both domestic and otherwise are best served by whoever can offer them the best product fot the best price. Irregardless of where that product comes from.

Your so-called balanced position is nothing of the sort it is in reality an inconsistent one.

[Fransisco]

Still having problems connecting the dots grasshopper?

Lowering trade barriers around the world for beef increases the demand. There are only so many places we can physically ship cattle and it makes more sense to turn it into beef first anyways. American packers seem to be more effiecient than our own, as such they are better positioned to increase exports. Where do they get the extra cattle from to fill the demand? Canada makes the most sense.

So the U.S. would buy <b>more cattle</b> from us if we traded supply management for lower tarrifs world wide.

[Fransisco]

By the way Tom, my friends call me Frisco. I do not think of 'Frany'as being particularly respectful of my name, sounds too much like Granny.

So please don't lecture me about name calling while using mine in a derogatory way. I have had quite enough of your hypocrisy as it is lately.

[TOM4CWB]

Frisco et al;

Sorry that I insulted you... funny how it wasn't worth your mentioning before... but NOW...

Ever heard of "Liquid Sunshine"?

Just check the Edmonton Radar... Charlie can confirm... I guess I am getting on your nerves... Time to take that CTEAM Course 'Frisco"!

Larry Martin and the crew are just waiting for a bright young man like you to educate... Frisky!

GRIN!

[SASKFARMER3]

If we could go back in time, After BSE hit wouldn't a Massive Cull of All animals over 7 Years of Age dealt better with the BSE situation then the liberal plan of Supporting the Feedlots and Packers?

[parsley]

Tom4CWB,


It's always useful to take a class and bring home some facts.

But ittakes another set of skills to assemble them coherently.

Are you takng another class on reason and logic, perchance?

Parsley

[grassfarmer]

Franny, you continue to show your woeful ignorance of the beef industry. You say
"Lowering trade barriers around the world for beef increases the demand." - really?? name me one country that is currently not importing Canadian beef because of our supply management industries.
"American packers seem to be more effiecient than our own, as such they are better positioned to increase exports." Who are our own packers? in case you hadn't noticed the packers providing in excess of 80% of kill capacity in Canada are American companies.
"So the U.S. would buy more cattle from us if we traded supply management for lower tarrifs world wide." - I repeat again the US does not withhold purchasing beef from us because of supply management - it has never been an issue.

This is without getting into the discussion on the difference between increased exports, increased prices at the beef sale end and net returns to beef producers(ie ranchers and feedlots) The "trickle down effect" most certainly does not work in our packer cartel controlled marketplace.

One thing that would open export doors for Canadian beef would be if we were to produce more to a hormone free, antibiotic free protocol - at least we know the EU would be a willing importer of such beef.

[grassfarmer]

Charlie P,
I missed your comment earlier. You say "the livestock people I talk to don't complain too much about the current run up in feed prices (recognize it is part of the market and a signal in a situation of declining feed grain acres)."
It's all very well talking to feedlot guys who are margin players that can keep going by bidding calves lower, but it's short term thinking. The problem with this is that cow/calf guys are fast bailing out - ultimately without a supply of feeder calves the feedlots are history.
It looks like another fall where the majority of feeder calves will be under $600. Not many of our current producers can survive on that.

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

Perhaps you could learn something from the George Morris Centre?

The 'Universal' CDN Neighbours we all have;... farm in Quebec and Nova Scotia, Ontario and PEI, as well as in western Canada. We all have much to lose if we are not careful how we negotiate the WTO agreement.

Protecting personal 'Economic Rights' is a quagmar of opinion, belief, and ideals... which often are short on fact and long on feelings!

Judging others... is easy to do, doesn't require much skill or thought, and often results in condemnation of one's own position and station in life by those who are judged!

I was looking for just a little balance here,,, some tolerance, a peck of Canadian innovation, and hope that we can better understand those who affect our lives... so everything is not a them and Us are enemies deal.

Quebec, Ontario & Eastern Canadian farm folks have just as much right to their opinions as we have...

That being said... I strongly believe the "Common Law" rights that base our Society... must rule.

A problem exists. We as Canadians have given the legal authority to Supply Management... Province by Province the legislation has been legally put in place authorising the schemes... and now some folks (people on this thread for instance) think they can take it all back (with one stroke of a magic invisible marker)... with a quick moral judgement... and a thumbs down sign.

Not the way it works folks... not on this planet! They will fight, just like we think we have the right to do... Like I had done... before I met a few of them and saw the beauty in what they do and why!

Reality Check: I stand for the individual's right to not have their property taken... without due process of law... Standing for the freedom to associate and work by themselves if they so choose;... if this can be done WITHOUT using the assets and property of others directly affected in the matter.

I believe a HUGE mistake was made by the Capitalization of "supply managment" Quota... as it was/is public property created by statute... Property of the state for the state and common good of all people.

How do we get out of this mess?

Some one some day will need to deal with this problem... in an articulate, sensitive, and caring manner. SM5 Quota is as much an asset to them... that is theirs... as either your or my grain sitting out in our grain bin.

Honourable Minister Ritz... must deal with this quandry... Minister Ritz needs innovative flexible solutions that bring us to a credible solution... that respects all involved... and is done in a civil manner.

Otherwise... how can I claim to meet the test of loving my neighbour as my self... and not coveting his property?

Being Honest, Just, and Fair... is not easy... one reason I would have a HUGE headache if I were GOD!

I sure am glad it is his position and authority to decide... who is right and who is wrong!

All I can say is;

God Bless Canada... no matter what you must do!