CGC Appointment

[parsley]

wmoebis,

And one thing I forgot...often the so-called "thinkers" enjoy being cutting and taling down to farmers.

Parsley

[wmoebis]

Yes Parsley and I have stated in other posts the thinkers we have in place now believe that producers are "suppliers to the industry".

Even tho absolutely every dollar generated in the industry comes right out of we producers pockets. It is not a matter of "if" we will pay it is "How" we are willing pay and for what kind of service.

That ultimetly should be up to us.

[parsley]

Pinpoint which grain in 2007 garnered you the least amount of dollars compard to what was being paid in the world.

Surely you would agree it was wheat and barley.

Examine the "thinkers" in place that govern wheat and barley.

Surely you would agree it is the appointed and elected Board of Directors. Surely you would agree that the elected Directors have the majority of votes.

Examine the most egregious policies they continue.

Surely you would agree it is lack of value-adding.

Surely you would agree it is spending from the pooling accounts as if they were unlimited ocean waters.

Paying for staff stress? Good grief. Paying for Liberal fundraisers? Good grief. Paying for NAFTA court cases? Good grief. Handing out money to China? Good grief.

You believe that farmers are acting on behalf of farmers? They do not when the institution is run by Government. The farmers act on behalf of political parties. Read again what Kodiak wrote. It should interface every permit book.

Think another step ahead. What have farmer-directors accomplished? Value adding? Nope. Individual felling into high priced niche markets? Nope Better relationships with industry? Nope Farmers closer to their customers? Nope Expanding industry? Nope Good public relations? Nope Better status in the world? Nope Younger farmers wanting the CWB? Nope

I will concede the CWB is a good stepping stone for running for elected office.

Good for farmers? Absolutely not.You are the CWB staff's monetary prisoner.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Incognito,

If my non-board grain is still in the primary elevator inventory... IT IS STILL MINE. I have the RIGHT to ask for it back, pound for pound, same grade/quality I delivered.

http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/Regulatory/CGCAct/2005/cga-e.pdf

Canada Grain Act

Part VII

GENERAL
Cash Purchase Tickets and Elevator Receipts

Restriction on creation of charge or interest

"112. Notwithstanding anything in the Bank Act, no charge on or interest in grain referred to in an elevator receipt that affects the interest of the holder of the receipt may be created by the holder, or by the operator of a licensed elevator who issued the receipt, other than by the endorsement or delivery of the receipt to the person in whose favour the charge or interest is created."

Incognito,

It is after shipping out of province that the issue of integrity occurs. Ever try to get grain back that is sitting in port 2500 miles away?

Provincial security schemes in Inter-provincial Trade, without Federal Jurisdiction... will be weak at best... and likely to be useless/worthless.

[Kodiak]

Parsley, CIBC depositors won’t be paying for the possible missteps of their management. Why? Because, thankfully, the CIBC doesn’t have a monopoly! If the CIBC tried to pass their losses to their customer, the customer is gone. Right now.

So who pays? It’s pretty much going to be CIBC shareholders. First, the possibility of a healthy dividend disappears as EPS drop, and following knowledge of that, in a split second the share value drops.

If their service fees or the interest they pay on deposits gets out of line with banks that haven’t made the same mistakes, the money and its owner moves. No buybacks. The situation in banking presents us with a world of difference from wheat and barley marketing. Ever try and take your milling wheat or malting barley business elsewhere?

[TOM4CWB]

Kodiak,

Canadian Banks make massive profits... just like the US Oil Co's.

On BNN they were saying that Exxon is making 1 Trillion Profit in the same time that the Ethanol Industry will receive 13.5 Billion in "Incentives". I believe the date was 2020.

How much profit do the oil co's and banks make... and out of that... how much Federal and local taxes do these co's pay?

It is massive!

When CIBC takes a 3.5B write down... it costs us $1.75B in taxes!

This certainly affects more than just the shareholder... the taxpayer must pay more as well!

It is just plain STUPID that CIBC was allowed to buy both the subprime debt... and the insurance system that was to prevent a collapse.

Now up to 3 million US homes/families will be going into foreclosure... Because proper regulation and care of assuring a stable sustainable market was not properly regulated. The Fed did not do its Job...

NOW

ALL of us will pay. You know we will. We always do!

Just like with Vehicle theft... the 160,000 vehicles stolen in Canada, mostly by organised Crime, each year costs us all on average $40/vehicle extra for insurance! Proper Federal Regulation installing immobilisers can cut this to almost nothing!

[bduke]

Merry Chritmas everyone. Colleen and I now have a turkey roasting and I am enjoying a cup of coffee and perusing the latest postings on Agri-ville. While I mostly enjoy the perspectives of others, I feel compelled to offer my 2 cents worth regarding the sub-prime issue.

Kodiak has it figured out, although I would suggest the "market" doesn't wait for dividends. An example would be CIBC shares down over 30% since early summer, and there dividends have increased. Seems illogical, however, the trading of shares is now dominated by "funds". These tend to be pension funds, union funds, mutual funds, hedge funds , private equity funds, etc. The managers of these funds are very mercenary, and they quckly move large plays to the most attractive returns in the short term. Three months, one quarter of a fiscal year, is long term to these players. I think they all use the same "program" as well! Guidance and disclosure becomes very important in volatile markets, but that is a topic for another day.

The sub-prime situation is also interesting(positive spin!), in that the market has probably grossly overstated the situation. Mortgages are sourced and priced according to factors such as eguity, credit ratings, location, security, relationship, etc. Pricings, spreads from base rates, are established with costs rising disproportionally to the probability of default.Therefore a triple A rating, with an extremely low probability of loss, will be priced close to prime. A triple C rating , with a probability of default of (i'm guessing) 5%, would be priced perhaps prime plus 7%. There is normally more profitability in the lower ratings. Many Mortgage Co's. source the deals, collect some fees, and then package these deals together and sell them to funds. Funds buy them to diversify there portfolios, or to back trading instruments(Asset Backed Commercial Paper!), with the intention of making a little money, and spreading risk.

When the US economy slowed down, motgages that were highly levered started defaulting, and the markets trading the paper were too illiquid, hence values "dicovered" that are up to 80% discounted. Accounting regulations require marketable securities to be marked to market at the close or each reporting period. The effect of these write downs can destroy balance sheets, i.e. insurers,etc. Therefore, if your business is counterparty to a business that is technically insolvent, you inherit the responsibility. Accounting regulations still apply and the write downs become a part of your balance sheet.

Note, write downs are not write offs, they are provisions to cover loss of value. I would be astonished if 80% of mortgages default (talk about a depression!), although the market would suggest it is likely. Therefore, I would surmise that when this market anxiety subsides, balance sheets will vastly improve.

Sorry for such a long winded post,and again, Merry Christmas....Bill

[cottonpicken]

Got my turkey in,the kids down for a nap,waiting for everyone to show up,snuck away to the computer for a cold one,hopfully my wife doesnt see me because there will probably be an intervention seeing as how its christmas an all.

The sub-prime thing is a derivatives thing.I hate talking about it because i dont completely understand it even though i've been studing it for WELL over a year(i take solice in the fact NOBODY understands them).The finacial system of the world is all interlinked.As an example what happens to the bond market in japan effects the price of wheat in canada.

What is happening in the sub-primes of the us is nothing short of a crisis in the financial world.Fannie and freddie are essentially bankrupt.Their combined market cap if i remember correct is around 4.5 trillion(i'll have to double check).The ceo of chrysler resently admitted his company is operationally bankrupt.

One number that has been throwen around and i believe is that 20 trillion will have to come off the books in write downs.The dervitives market has groan to over 500 trillion and is growing at something like 128%.

I descided to dumpster dive to back myself up.
http://www.agri-ville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1164488684

[Kodiak]

Merry Christmas! I have to think that a bunch of us are challenged (compulsive disorder) in some way if we’re actually reading and musing on a message board today!

Yes Bill, you’re right. The “market” doesn’t wait for dividends. If anything, it anticipates what they might be, which is why I said “the possibility of a healthy dividend disappears”. It’s similar to how the futures market for grains and oilseeds anticipates what might happen with future S&D’s. And just like in the futures markets, in the mortgage market fund activity can, and likely has, overshot the situation. I’m not about to slash my wrists over anything at this point. I’d suggest it’s an opportunity to take a deep breath, and figure out how to profit from the excessive exuberance and paranoid pessimism that exists in today’s marketplace.

And hey Tom, it’s time for a good night’s sleep for you. If you don’t, I’m afraid your farm may suffer a financial meltdown. Then I’ll be forced to pay more taxes because you won’t be paying enough! And Tom, when someone figures out how to regulate stupidity, we’re going to be in real tough shape. My prediction, backed up with hindsight, is that regulated stupidity will cause 1000% more problems than if you let people (and market players and managers) make dumb decisions. Regulation teaches nothing. Learning from mistakes teaches a lot.

[parsley]

Not surprisingly, Ontario turkey is really good,it is cold cold here, too.

And with two lawyers in-house, Parsley has to back up everything with facts, which I conjured amicably under the influence of plenty, plenty imported champagne!

A few observations garnered from some minds present:

Regulators...Moody's, for example, are supposed to regulate ratings. They didn't do their job, resulting in a fiasco... CIBC, for example.

CIBC down here is taking a trashing. Toronto Dominion kept it's nose clean, while CIBC threw itself, with abandon, into the arms of irresponsibility.(Yup..(all of us have at one time or another)

And lastly, derivitives .....nobody at all truly understands the results accruing from the way derivitives are sometimes applied.

Lastly, the markets can become mighty treacherous.

So what grain farmers don't already know these gems of information? LOL

Merry Christmas, Parsley

[parsley]

The Champagne:
Perrier Jouet
Belle Epoque
1998
a Epernay-France

Trust me. Try it.
parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Kodiak,

ATB is 100% backed on all Deposits;

Alberta Credit Unions are 100% backed on all Deposits:

Ontario Agricorp backs grain sales of designated crops...:

"Programs
Grain Financial Protection Program
Agricorp delivers the Grain Financial Protection Program on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs (OMAFRA).

The program protects the financial interests of Ontario producers of grain corn, soybeans, canola, and wheat who sell their crop to licensed dealers. It also protects owners who store grains and oilseeds with licensed elevator operators.

Agricorp licenses 325 grain dealers and 245 elevator companies in 356 locations across Ontario. Annual grain sales covered by the program are in excess of $1.1 billion dollars.

As a producer dealing with a licensed grain dealer or elevator operator, you should:

Receive weigh tickets or grain receiving vouchers for each load delivered
Receive your cheque within 10 trading days, for a cash or contract sale
Receive your cheque the next trading day, if the sale is out of storage
Receive 75 percent of the market price within the above timeframe when selling on a basis contract
Not agree to extend the time on which payment becomes due
Cash your cheque within 5 banking days of receipt
Receive your grain storage receipt within 45 days of delivery or within 5 days, if requested
Ensure the expiration date, charges, or other agreements are filled in on your grain storage receipt and signed by the elevator operator.
If you do not receive these services within the appropriate timeframe, please contact Agricorp.

Questions?
If you have any questions or concerns, please call Agricorp's Call Centre toll free between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday to Friday at 1-888-247-4999 or email contact@agricorp.com."



When we (In Western Canada) have a system (for non-board grain) that comes anywhere close to providing the integrity Ontario Grain growers have in place...

Then I will be able to sleep in peace!

Until then...

God Bless you one and all... and may all your grain sales be good ones that don't bounce when you deposit the Cheques!

Grin ( :

All the best for 2008...:

May the spring planting rains germinate your crops...

May the July filling rains cool the hot summer days and provide plump healthy seed,

May the September harvest fill your bins with; caring thoughts, a bountiful harvest, and healthy prosperous friendships!