CGC Appointment

[Incognito]

Tom:

Grain dealers get no credit for grain in store. Zero. It may be just primary elevators.

Grain prices double - what happens?

[TOM4CWB]

Incognito,

Grain Dealers SHOULD be allowed to count inventory in secure positions. That is easy to fix. Obviously Ontario has.

I never said our system was anywhere near perfect... in fact I would argue those folks charged with the responsibility to better serve us... have done more to distract and forward excuses that actively tear our system into pieces... concentrating on the weaknesses...

RATHER than building on the strong points... and creating a system that can effectively serve us all better.

This is obviously all about a state of mind... how people learn to work together through difficult times... with reasonable safeguards... and to maintain a stable system that is balanced.

Bond rating co's have proven they don't have the ability to maintain a system with integrity. Banks have proven they cannot be trusted.

Anyone who thinks back over the past decade... and identifies ENRON, BREX, CIBC/ACA/Morgan&Stanley...etc. knows self regulated self discipline industry schemes do not work.

For that very reason the Canada Grain Act was put in place over 100 years ago!

[Incognito]

Anyone who thinks back over the past decade... knows self regulated self discipline industry schemes do not work.

_____________________________________
How many futures contracts have been defaulted on in the past decade?

[parsley]

Wanna make that two decades?


LOL

[TOM4CWB]

Incognito,

Remember Xcan and Canola?

I still believe the CGC has a valid role in the supervision of futures contracts that operate internationally... especially now the owners of these exchanges are for profit entities now. Being that the USA entities are supervising/own them... it is much better than when WCE was on their own under Manitoba law alone.

[Incognito]

a) no contract was defaulted in XCAN and canola

b) the CGC didnt and don't have the expertise to supervise futures - phone Milt again.

[TOM4CWB]

Incognito,

Just because there was no technical default, and the CGC didn't do more... than they did... does this mean the hands that were slapped... paid anywhere near what it cost farmers for that fiasco?

There are people who knew EXACTLY what happened... and simple low cost analysis programs that could be written put in place to warn of possible future integrity gaps!

If the will was there... perhaps a 3rd party "Watchdog" with ...way... more than enough experience and integrety could be contracted to work in the public interest of all Canadians...

I think I know a few folks myself... who knew/know enough to have more... make more than one person have a VERY RED FACE if they thought back about what they did and did not do to protect grain growers interests!

Need I say more?

[Incognito]

So its a free market when it suits you...

Nanny state when it doesn't...

interesting dichotomy...

Just curious - what farmers were in the June 1994 canola contract when it was shut down... what grain companies were using the June contract to relay cash prices to their elevators?

[TOM4CWB]

Incognito,

"Just curious - what farmers were in the June 1994 canola contract when it was shut down... what grain companies were using the June contract to relay cash prices to their elevators?"


Isn't that the point?

Why do you suppose was I 100 miles from that market ... yet owned Canola?

Are you saying governments, the very creators of "trade and commerce" facilities;

Have no legitimate interest in the integrity/regulation of the very instruments they have created?

[parsley]

Tinker, I am home again, so I have to jump in here, since I instigated the comment-stir for a little sport, and of course you pick up on every Parsley-nuance.

Governments cannot effectively be a regulator and a player at the same time.

The Government of Canada cannot regulate wheat and sell wheat simultaneously becaue it is a conflict of interest.

Until the Government of Canada acts as a true regulator, all markets are compromised by the Government's Wheat Board marketingtactics/maneuverings/manipulations.

Therefore, the free market, no matter what it does, will ultimately do a better job, because it's presence allows the Government to jump in as a regulator if it becomes necessary.

The converse... the Government trying to police itself likely leads to cronyism/bribery/corruption/Gagglianoism/CWBisamations.

Can the XCan cooked goose. No sense serving what's done like dinner.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

Lets have the Lawyers appoint the Judges.

There is no Public interest in the LAW since only Lawyers understand the law.

I watch the CGC security issue with passion AND interest.

I never said the system of security for grain growers we have now couldn't be improved... or that we can't do better!

Estimated cost... $5M for $5B coverage.

.1% cost.

The CGC has done work showing that .2% to .3% are the likely costs of other systems... IF we have buy in by all growers.

The chances of that happening?

Better coverage... by/for more players... at lower cost system wide?

NO WAY.

System costs by the big three grain co's is an integrated paper trail... that is a matter of good business procedure in any event.

Why should grain dealers working out of a phone booth get a free ride... when used car salesmen, Farm equipment dealers... Auction marts... all are required to bond their business! NOT voluntary either... IN the PUBLIC interest!

We watch corruption in Russia... BIG oil play games that force us to burn 50% more fuel than is needed in North America...

So we will implement a system that costs twice as much to run as Ontario has in place now... and as we have... to get better coverage for the majority of growers who will never have any coverage at all?

Will we PUT the 5M aside each year? NO of course not... we are supposed to SAVE money! By spending twice as much with twice as much paperwork if we actually want coverage!

ANd who will pay?

The growers who are "mistrusting" & "uncooperative".

Partners who are grumps and greedy...

I will trust my neighbours I have known for generations... with millions...

but the farther folks get away... in distance... relationship... and interests... the higher the risk becomes, and the more difficult it is to recover from a BAD DEAL.

Been there... done that. NO THANKS! I wouldn't wish the stress/cost on my enemy... let alone my friend!

There is a 'Public Good'. "...The Commission shall, in the interests of the grain producers, establish and maintain standards of quality for Canadian grain and regulate grain handling in Canada, to ensure a dependable commodity for domestic and export markets."

If I don't get paid fairly... The CGC has failed to do the very job it was created to do.

Parsley... THIS is NOT about the CWB, Pooling, Export licenses granted of denied by the CWB licensing dept...

If I want to ignore the CGC... don't want their "help" (grade) or "security" (bonding)...

As it stands today... we are not required to get in each others hair or call the RCMP. Not so bad... if you ask me!

[parsley]

CGC fine.

My point is in order for either to be effective, the Wheat Board has to go.

Government running both is a conflict.

Want to meet me in Winnipeg today? I'm heading back there. I'll let that security guard at that same lot know you are coming. LOL

Parsley