"evil corporations"??????

[TOM4CWB]

Tower,


What is this?

"...my monologue about Ritz and his use of backstabbing tactics to circumvent the law and democratic rule."

Please explain how Minister Ritz broke the law, and circumvented democratic rule.

Exactly what kind of 'Democracy' do you advocate?

[tower]

Northfarmer I said the closest thing to central planning we have in our economy. There is a difference. I wouldn't call what a lot of those corporations do economic activity. I believe it is very un-economic activity, and until there is recognition in the way they behave towards environmental, social, and economic sustainability I think we should stay as far out of their clutches as we can.

Jay-mo I hope that answers a few of your concerns as well. You are quite right, all of them did start out small, and have through hard work, and over time, research and development, consumer studies, service, lobbying, and eventually social irresponsibility towards the environment, labour, democracy, the law, and economic development they have achieved their present status. Am I envious? no. Perhaps I feel a small amount of pity for the people involved in them now.

Tom, this is the thread that I was commenting on. Perhaps if you go back and try reading it this time you will understand the comments I made.

As to the kind of democracy I support I guess it would have to be one where the majority has the rule, kind of like the one we live in now. I understand that it is really tough to bear when the majority rule is against your specific interest. I do. However the alternative is going to be worse.

My marketing philosophy could best be summed up as the Gordon Lightfoot school of keeping your eyes open.

Never hit seventeen when you're playin against the dealer for you know the odds won't ride with you. Never leave your woman alone when your friends are out to steal her. Years are gambled and lost like summer wages.

https://www.agriville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1202419038

[parsley]

tower,

The people/corporations/companies/partnerships are supposed to hopefullt create wealth. Farmers sure do.

The Government job is supposedly to regulate that wealth.

In the case of the CWB, THEY want to ALSO be the player/the kingmaker.

They want to have all the wheat and barley wealth at their disposal, to toy with as they see fit.

The CWB does not want to be just a regulator. The CWB ALSO wants to be the SOLE PLAYER.

That is not democracy.

Democracy? You wouldn,t recognize it if you fell over it.

Parsley

[northfarmer]

Tower, I give up, it is sad to think you cancel out my vote in the democratic process...good thing I keep voting

[FarmRanger]

Tower on corporations:
“I think that they and their shareholders are misinformed about the nature of economics, and greedy, and the closest thing we have to central planning in our economy.”

Definition of a corporation: The most common form of business organization, and one which is chartered by a state and given many legal rights as an entity separate from its owners. This form of business is characterized by the limited liability of its owners, the issuance of shares of easily transferable stock, and existence as a going concern.

In other words, a group of individuals can get together and accomplish something together (and usually with economies of scale) that they couldn’t easily do individually. Shares are transferable, and any monies taken out of a corporation are fully taxable by those individuals who own the shares. We have a plethora of goods available and much larger economies here in the western world because of what the corporate structure has made possible.
In no way shape or form does this even remotely resemble central planning.

[parsley]

"the way they behave towards environmental, social, and economic sustainability"


If they are environmentally irresponsible, for instance, isn't regulation the job of Government?

Do you want the Corps to regulate themselves? Is that your notion?

Parsley

[tower]

farmranger, I read your definition of corporation, and I read your last line about in no way is a corporation a centrally planned enterprise. perhaps I missed it but what was the corelation between the definition and the final phrase?

[FarmRanger]

Hi Tower,
I just provided a definition of a corporation because a lot of people just don’t realize that corporations are not individuals themselves, but owned and ultimately run by shareholders who are individuals. Individuals make better decisions if they have a vested interest in the outcome of those decisions. This is the main reason why western economies with corporate structures have a huge edge over any centrally planned economy.

Corporations will try to fill existing consumer demand and anticipate demand for the least cost in order to compete successfully with others who provide similar goods and services. If they are successful, consumers get cheaper goods and services. If not, they will change, or perish. There is a very real financial risk to not providing value to consumers. Improvements and efficiencies are rewarded. Poor decisions are also borne by the shareholders.

Central planners will supply what they deem your needs to be and don’t have to worry about a competitor providing something better and/or at a lower cost. What financial risk is there, and where will the consumer go if the central planner doesn’t provide good value?
Do a bad job as a central planner and what are the repercussions? Consumers can’t simply buy from the competition. What about civil unrest? Why do you think that central planned economies are usually in countries that have repressive governments? Higher cost goods and/or lower wages and/or suppression of access to information are inevitably the result.

That’s why economies with free market corporate structures are vastly different (and superior IMHO) from central planned economies.

[tower]

Thanks farmranger, good discussion. I'm not sold yet though, corporations have vested interest as well as individuals. Corporations, at least the majors who control so much of activity in the agrifood sector have a lot more power to ensure that their vested interests are considered in governmental decision making.

When there is such concentration of power in the hands of so few individual corporations there is also the ability to manipulate opinion, market conditions, and pricing. I don't see that as being much different to a centrally planned economy in agriculture.

Higher cost goods? have you looked at the cost of Canola seed or fertilizer lately? Lower wages? Until this price outbreak do you know anyone that was getting lower prices that grain growers around the world? Where are so many jobs being developed? in third or developing world countries where human rights abuse is rampant and wages are as low as possible.

With respect to access to information, how would you like to make an independant evaluation based on information supplied to the public about the relative merits of GM crops.

[FarmRanger]

If there are too few players in a market, even corporate ones, then you start getting the problems that are inherent with monopolies, or oligopolies. So we’re on the same page with that one, tower. Good regulation should provide a check and balance, albeit not perfect. If corporations are allowed to operate like central planners, that’s a regulatory problem. In addition to being answerable to shareholders, corporations still need to be answerable to the countries they operate in, and not the other way around.

Determining fairness is key. I’ve heard some people unfairly advocate strangling corporations to the point that they can’t make a profit, but allowing unfettered abuse of market power isn’t fair either. Prosperity comes to the nation that can fairly find the balance between the two.

Our system isn‘t perfect and I can see lots of room for improvement, but I‘d still rather farm here than in any centrally planned economy.

[TOM4CWB]

Farmranger,

In Wheat and Barley... we do have a centrally planned economy. The pool, all other issues are secondary.

The CWB does fulfill the basic standard of being 'evil' and it is a 317 corporation.

CWB Section 317... if any spin is possible... quote section 317... it will bail you out every time.

[tower]

Anyone interested in this thread might like to have a look at the thread I started under Agri-food and Value Adding. It's not intended to be just about marketing of our product but that is included.