CWB supporters are NUTS!

[Fransisco]

You can't have the great unwashed masses deciding things like this in a voluntary marketplace. That is just too darn democratic.

[tower]

there you go again, fransisco with the democracy of the marketplace, I saw a suggestion that large farmers should have more heavily weighted votes in a referendum on the cwb, is that the democracy that you support and believe in?

So let's see, aside from the people telling me what I'm saying, and the people that want a more democratic right than I have, ... a definition of fair. how about, a return that covers the costs of production and allows a decent life, on average, over time. fairness where the major grain handlers aren't syphoning off the subsidies forcing farmers to sell below the costs. fairness where three incomes aren't necessary to keep the farm in the family while providing thus subsidized cheap produce to the multinationals. fairness where the land doesn't suffer because we end up mining the farm to keep the other partners in agribusiness in dividends.

[Fransisco]

Tower there is no denying it there is nothing in the world more democratic than the free market.

As far as voting on the CWB goes, my first position is that nobody gets a vote on what I do with my grain. It's none of their business.

My second position is that if we are going to do it then lets treat it like a business, those who have a higher stake just like people who hold more shares in a company should get more say. So if you have more acreage or more tonnage I think you should get more say.

As far as your cost of production theory of fairness goes, cry me a river. The world doesn't owe you a living tower, you have to earn that.

If you are producing something that nobody wants at the price you think you need then either you have to pull up your socks and get more efficient or find something else to produce.

[SASKFARMER3]

tower all I want is the right to sell my crop to who ever I want at whatever time I want. I control my crop since its mine. Not sum flunky like Vader. Whats wrong with that. Simply let the ones out that want out and the rest of you can keep the CWB I will sign a paper that says I will stay out of your way if you do the same.
I just want Choice.

[silverback]

You must really think it is unfair that the cwb doesn't help market your red clover seed for you then hey tower?

The only people that seem to be mining the soil around here are either long out of business (and replaced with guys who care), or the old cwb lovers who can't imagine why the gov't doesn't help pay for their fertilizer every year.

It is unbelievable to imagine someone so blinded by their loyalty to the system that when the price of grain finally gets up to where it should have been, they can say it is too much and unfair to the poor consumers!

What percent of your acres are in cwb crops Tower?

How many tonnes did you have to sell through them last year?

[TOM4CWB]

Tower,

I am not quite clear on what you want...

Did I get it right... NO Transparent cash price? NO market signal indicating what consumers are paying for our produce?

Please tell me what determines what we should grow... if these market signals are not avaliable?

[tower]

fransisco, there is nothing at all democratic about the marketplace. I understand this delusion has been voiced about by it's proponents but this is no reeason to believe it. It is peoples business what you do with your grain. and the grain companies want you to make it their business.

Farming is more than a business, it is an integral part of the economy and social structure of the nation. The first law of conservation of resources is to improve what you already have. It is wasteful to throw out valuable components. Just like farming.

Throwing out democracy with the wheat board would be a travesty. Check out the definition of democracy before making recommendations about it.

In the same sense that farming is part of the social structure of the nation, the nation has a responsibility to see that it's agricultural resources aren't mined in order that society can have cheap grain. So Yeah, I do believe that society owes me a fair return on my produce. It's in the self interest of all of us.

saskfarmer, you might sign that paper but how much time would you spend checking to see that your actions don't place yourself in my way. Your crop is your crop, but a democratically elected board has a responsibility to all of us here in the prairies to try to market for us. I'm not saying that the job couldn't be done better.

In other posts I've said that we should be electing people who have our interests at heart, who have knowledge about marketing, and wave the strength to stand up to industry and governments that have their own interests on their minds.

silverback, I have a farmer elected co-operative agency that helps me to market my clover seed.

How do you know what land is being mined? and what makes you think that growing crops with big fertilizer bills isn't mining the land?

I don't think that prices have yet gotten to the point of fairness to farmers because I don't think that the suppliers of farm inputs have recognized the value of farm production to society. Only the value that they can extract personally from the value chain. Unfair to consumers? I never said anything like that.

About 55% of my crops are in cwb crops, How about you?

I don't have to sell anything through the board if I don't want to. If someone wants out like you guys apparently do then you have the option of growing non board crops.

[stubblejumper]

Fransisco Why stop at a weighted vote for the CWB? Why not for parlament? If I pay taxes on 200,000 should I not get more votes than someone who pays taxes on 29999.

[silverback]

Are you FORCED to use that red clover cooperative tower?

Would you go to jail if you tried to sell it to someone other than the cooperative?

Was that cooperative imposed on you years ago or were you free to organize it yourselves?

It isn't too hard to see who is mining their land tower. If they are not applying fertilizer at seeding time, not fall applying, and not summerfallowing, I would define that as mining. When they combine three times as long as I do without filling a hopper, I would define that as mining.

I don't know where you learned about agronomy, but replacing the nutrients you take out with the grain would not be defined as mining. It sounds like you believe fertilizer is the boogeyman.

How arrogant the response "just grow non-board crops". Would you be ok if the board decided that you couldn't grow non-board crops?

I didn't think so.

[tower]

silverback, I'm sure you do think I'm arrogant to suggest that those who don't want to deal with the board should just not do it. I don't think I am, it obviously causes some few people a great deal of stress and frustration, I say just walk away, is that so hard to do?

Would it be any harder than the suggestion I've had on here that I should market everything through the board, a little give and take.

Same thing with fertilizer, I find that people that jump to ridiculous conclusions, ie that I consider fertilizer to be a boogeyman based on what I said, are either too stressed out about what they are doing to their fields, or are simply reaching for an argument to use.

Improper use of fertilizer is harmful to the soil, perhaps worse than mining in that the mining tailings are incorporated into the soil structure and cause considerable harm. People who buy into the sales pitches and are always trying for the big crop by using more fertilizer than they are likely going to be able to use are mining.

Am I forced to market through the co-op? Man you would not believe these guys!!! at the point of a gun, and what's worse they are forcing me to grow the stuff as well.

[SASKFARMER3]

But tower its my land. Right I payed for it or am paying for it.
It is definitely in better shape now than the 80 years of Mining that happened with 1/2 1/2. Recreational tillage killed most of western Canada's soils. Direct seeding is bringing them back slowly. IF you don't believe this come NE and see where we break land and then see how a crop grows their. If you 1/2 and 1/2 in a few years its the same as the rest of the field you don't see a difference. But since we started direct seeding 17 years ago any area we cleared back then is still over producing now. Why organic matter is building up in the soils. With rec tillage its dead.
Now the other thing I need filler crops and HRS and Durum have been the crops of choice. But unfortunately a few like yourself continue to force (Gun at Head) to deliver to the lovely CWB, If they cant get us a huge profit in a year the world is out of grain. SOME THING IS WRONG!

[silverback]

Answer the cooperative question tower.

Do they ever say to you that if you want to grow red clover that you have to sell it through them?

If red clover is the best thing to grow on your farm, but the cooperative is offering nothing of value to you, would they ever say to you "Just grow something else Tower, we are in control of red clover"????

Some of us are not lucky enough to be farming in an area where you can grow anything you want like stubblejumper, or apparently you. Our climate allows us to grow HRS pretty good in most years. How is it that you feel it is your right to tell me that I should walk away from the one crop that grows well in my climate, but nobody has ever said that to you?

But let me guess, your next comment will be "Sell your farm and move".