CWB supporters are NUTS!

[tower]

silverback, I'm sure you do think I'm arrogant to suggest that those who don't want to deal with the board should just not do it. I don't think I am, it obviously causes some few people a great deal of stress and frustration, I say just walk away, is that so hard to do?

Would it be any harder than the suggestion I've had on here that I should market everything through the board, a little give and take.

Same thing with fertilizer, I find that people that jump to ridiculous conclusions, ie that I consider fertilizer to be a boogeyman based on what I said, are either too stressed out about what they are doing to their fields, or are simply reaching for an argument to use.

Improper use of fertilizer is harmful to the soil, perhaps worse than mining in that the mining tailings are incorporated into the soil structure and cause considerable harm. People who buy into the sales pitches and are always trying for the big crop by using more fertilizer than they are likely going to be able to use are mining.

Am I forced to market through the co-op? Man you would not believe these guys!!! at the point of a gun, and what's worse they are forcing me to grow the stuff as well.

[SASKFARMER3]

But tower its my land. Right I payed for it or am paying for it.
It is definitely in better shape now than the 80 years of Mining that happened with 1/2 1/2. Recreational tillage killed most of western Canada's soils. Direct seeding is bringing them back slowly. IF you don't believe this come NE and see where we break land and then see how a crop grows their. If you 1/2 and 1/2 in a few years its the same as the rest of the field you don't see a difference. But since we started direct seeding 17 years ago any area we cleared back then is still over producing now. Why organic matter is building up in the soils. With rec tillage its dead.
Now the other thing I need filler crops and HRS and Durum have been the crops of choice. But unfortunately a few like yourself continue to force (Gun at Head) to deliver to the lovely CWB, If they cant get us a huge profit in a year the world is out of grain. SOME THING IS WRONG!

[silverback]

Answer the cooperative question tower.

Do they ever say to you that if you want to grow red clover that you have to sell it through them?

If red clover is the best thing to grow on your farm, but the cooperative is offering nothing of value to you, would they ever say to you "Just grow something else Tower, we are in control of red clover"????

Some of us are not lucky enough to be farming in an area where you can grow anything you want like stubblejumper, or apparently you. Our climate allows us to grow HRS pretty good in most years. How is it that you feel it is your right to tell me that I should walk away from the one crop that grows well in my climate, but nobody has ever said that to you?

But let me guess, your next comment will be "Sell your farm and move".

[tower]

saskfarmer, I agree that there is something wrong. The Cwb mandate is to serve farmers and the users and consumers of grain. Our governments for the last thirty years have bowed to the wishes of the processors and feeders, and exporters of our production at the expense of the growers. That doesn't make the wheat board unworkable, it does make the liberals and the conservatives our opponents.

As to the soils issue, I was under the understanding that direct seeding was a benefit to soil tilth as well. In some ways it is. There are a couple of problems with it though, if exessive npk is used. You might look into the micro-biotics ratios in your soil.
Perhaps there are crops that could be grown that would do the same sort of good and not have the harmful side effects.


silverback, might I suggest you take fransiscos advice?

"If you are producing something that nobody wants at the price you think you need then either you have to pull up your socks and get more efficient or find something else to produce. "

Alternatively let me know what area you farm in and I'll see if I can make recommendations about alternative cropping for you.

[silverback]

Answer the red clover cooperative questions tower.

Are you implying that nobody is buying HRS for extremely good prices right now?

If you know that the world is paying more for red clover seed than ever before, but your cooperative is only able to extract a fraction of it, would you still believe in them? No questions asked? Would you switch to some other crop?

We farm east of calgary, no irrigation. What do you recommend?

Now tell us where you farm so we can compare.

Please clarify what you believe is in our fertilizer that is killing our land. How long do we have before it collapses and we will be unable to grow safe food? Or is it too late for my kids?

[FarmRanger]

“you have the option of growing non board crops “
“I say just walk away, is that so hard to do?”

Tower, for some of us, wheat, durum and malt barley are good crops to grow on our farms for rotational or other agronomic reasons. Saying that we have a choice to not grow the crops forced into the CWB system is like saying “if you don’t like it, just quit farming”. Taking those crops out of our rotation might cause more problems than the dollar losses we suffer dealing with them in the CWB.

Although, for many of us this year, the substantial losses of being stuck in the designated area are probably larger than using goofy rotations to avoid board grains.
BUT, in a free country, why should we have to?

[tower]

silverback, I answered the red clover co-operative question. If you can't deal with the answer, I'm sorry but that's not my problem. There would be plenty of questions asked given the circumstances you suggest about marketing clover or any other crop. I'm quite happy to ask questions and I even go so far as to suggest what questions others might ask. And have done so above.

If you are seriously wanting to avoid the wheat board I'd recommend going to a ten year rotation, long rooted alfalfa and switchgrass, 5 and 5.

I farm in the northern part of the province where we can grow anything. I had a nice crop of doctors not to long ago. But with one thing and another I went back to canola, better long term profits. Well you know how it is the doctors join an industry association, in fact have to join, have votes on how to get the best deal from the consumers, pretty soon there's some that think they could get a better deal in the states and probably live better too, lol, and they're gone. C'est la vie.

I've been reading about the effect nitrogen has, at fairly high levels of application, on certain types of micro-organisms. It increases nitrosamines and mycotoxins which actually damage other micro-organisms that help to break down nitrogen compounds into plant usable nutrients.

Rhizobium is one of the micro-organisms that can be harmed by N fertilizer. That's almost ironic. Apparently as well prolonged use of N fertilizer has the effect of lowering the ph of soils.

Obviously there are a lot of factors involved, crops grown, amount of fertilizer, and whether the land is cultivated for production of crops. It seems that unless the land is mixed a certain amount the effects of the mycotoxins and nitrosamines are worse.

[FarmRanger]

"It seems that unless the land is mixed a certain amount the effects of the mycotoxins and nitrosamines are worse"

That is the opposite of anything I've read; if you have the source of that information handy I wouldn't mind reading that tower.
Thanks

[tower]

farmranger sure, here's a link to the study,

http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/11.3/193-198.pdf

by the way, I'm not telling anyone to quit growing wheat and barley, I'm suggesting it as an option for people that can't handle working with the wheat board. Even minimizing your production of those grains might help.

[FarmRanger]

Thanks tower,
Over-fertilization is definitely not good for your soil. Tillage is also not good for it.

There is approximately 3000 lbs. of N in a 3% organic matter soil. The trick is to convert it to a usable form and have it available for plant usage. Killing soil organisms with tillage is counterproductive as it is these organisms that work to cycle nutrients for plant growth. We know that organic matter is mineralized faster with increased tillage.
http://soil.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/66/2/421
Combine tillage with over-fertilization, and it leads to the leaching and poisoning of the soil that you refer to. Moderate rates of fertilizer usage in a no-till soil lead to healthier, higher organic matter soils.

Wheat and barley love the no-till system I use on my farm. I have already reduced area of those crops from what would otherwise be economically optimal for my farm.
The question still remains though, why, in a free country, should I have to institute those kinds of management decisions, solely because of being shackled to a monopoly buyer?

[silverback]

Please share your knowledge of the economics of switchgrass now.

Is there a coop I can join for that as well? What is the market for switchgrass at the moment? Is there any hope that the cwb will include switchgrass in it's monopsony control in the future?

[tower]

Farm Ranger, I thought i was getting along fine until I ran into this phrase... Fig. 1. Cross-polarization magic angle-spinning total sideband suppression .... lolol.

Anyway lots of info there, it'd be good to remember that the tillage system compared to no till is multiple discings plus field cultivation to control weeds. I find that most of these studies do a similar comparison between this kind of "conventional" farming and no till. It's fine as far as it goes but of course there is a pretty wide range between the two extremes.

Similar to that between "free" countries and dictatorial types that operate at the point of a gun. Since there is no such thing as a free country, restrictions imposed by a democratically elected board, (ie one that can be replaced,) based on rules that are open to improvement, don't seem as onerus as the other type. If they seem to be too much of an infringement there are still options.

Such as switchgrass production silverback. I would like to be able to help with the present economics of ethanol production from switchgrass etc. but I can't. I do understand that the possibilities look better for that kind than for ethanol from grains.