Fiscal cliff

[bluefargo]

I know this topic has been beat to death on here and elsewhere but it is still clear as mud to me.
The USA has a gazillion dollar debt.
The USA is running a garganuan deficit.

So.... wouldn't it be a good start to
a) raise taxes
b) reduce government spending

What am I missing?

[ajl]

The problem is that while both of those
things are necessary, they will have a
deflationary effect. Assets such as
housing, farmland, stocks, will go down
jeopardizing banks. In addition people
will have no discretionary income left
after paying higher taxes so aggregate
demand will fall increasing
unemployment. Nobody wants to wear this
thing so all politicians are looking to
not be associated with the fallout. In
addition there is the hope of a magic
bullet solution emerging. That is why
this is so difficult.

[highwayman]

It appears that they need to experience the pain
before they get to the solution, if there really is
one to this mess. And that pain will indeed be felt
by all of us.

[bucket]

More than likely all the senators and governors haven't quite got their money positioned properly just yet.

Once all their self serving interests are in order a deal will be done.

Its all quite stupid. These things are like union negotiations, christmas, easter, the summer and winter solstices, etc. They come every year and they know when they are coming, why they wait till the last minute to solve this, is beyond comprehension.

For a union contract to go a year past expiration to be solved just goes to prove how incompetent people are on both sides.

Same with fiscal cliff, its been in the news every day for quite a while with december 31st as the deadline.

It should have been tackled by now, which is why I think I am cynical about people taking care of their own interests instead of the electorate's which is what they were hired to do.

But then again look at our final final payment from the cwb and the excuses they have thrown at its delay. The WGRF has their money and the railways have theirs and their overpayments on grain shipped but the cwb doesn't know what the final should be yet. I suspect they are getting their bonuses done before they give farmers their money.

[fjlip]

The American Dream/Nightmare.
Materialism, consumerism, political interests, complex banking system, etc.

[TOM4CWB]

We have been over the US fiscal cliff before...this isn't going away....

United States debt-ceiling crisis
From Wikipedia,...

This article is about the 2011 debt-ceiling crisis. For information about the ongoing debate over the 2013 debt ceiling, see portions of the United States fiscal cliff.

Part of a series on Government
United States
budget...

Economy ·Expenditures
Federal budget ·Financial position
Military budget ·Public debt
Taxation ·Unemployment....

Fiscal Cliff
Bowles-Simpson Commission ·Bush tax cuts
Debt-ceiling crisis ·Deficit reduction
Health care reform ·Political debates
Social Security debate · "Starve the beast"
Cumulative deficit Interest = Debt

The United States debt-ceiling crisis was a financial crisis in 2011 that started as a debate in the United States Congress about increasing the debt ceiling. The crisis ended when a complex deal was reached that raised the debt ceiling and reduced proposed increases to future government spending, although similar debates are possible for future budgets.[1] As part of the aftermath, the crisis had a major political impact in the United States, in which public support for Congress fell dramatically. President Barack Obama and Speaker of the House John Boehner announced on July 31[2011] that an agreement had been achieved. After the legislation was passed by both the House and Senate, President Obama signed the Budget Control Act of 2011 into law on August 2, the date estimated by the department of the Treasury that the borrowing authority of the US would be exhausted.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis

[TOM4CWB]

Buffett-is-a-dope-or-hypocrite-or-both...

By: Robert Sanborn December 27, 2012


Today's Headlines 12/28/2012

View All of Today's News Headlines

As a professional investor for almost 30 years, I have the utmost respect for Warren Buffett. He has a legendary record that validates his consistent value-oriented investment philosophy. Unfortunately, that logic has not carried over to his current thoughts on taxes. He is proposing a rule whereby millionaires like him pay at least the same 30 percent income tax rate as his secretary, all in the name of “fairness.”


First, this debate has totally bungled the differences between a “stock” and a “flow,” something all introductory economics students learn in their first week of class. A stock measures an amount at a specific moment in time, and a flow represents an amount over an interval of time. Thus, “wealth” is a stock and “income” is a flow.


President Barack Obama has characterized taxpayers with $250,000 of income as “rich,” and his proposals for this group to pay its “fair share” focus on “income.” Under this nonsensical definition of “rich,” my 36-year-old urologist just starting his practice with no assets and a lot of debt and making $500,000 per year is somehow “rich.” Correspondingly, Facebook Inc.'s Mark Zuckerberg may have a modest income but gargantuan assets and is somehow not “rich.” Mr. Buffett, who knows better, has contributed to this dopey debate — after all, there are legitimate reasons why income tax rates on various people are different — with his proposal.


In addition, for a man whose career is a lesson in business and personal tax minimization, he is the last person who should be preaching about “fairness” when it comes to taxation. Mr. Buffett, at his death, will most likely, relative to his wealth, be the lightest-taxed American in the history of the republic. The vast majority of his wealth is in the form of unrealized gains in his shares in Berkshire Hathaway Inc., shares that upon his death will be donated almost entirely to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. (He also has donated to foundations run by relatives.) Mr. Buffett is the second-richest man in America, with a net worth estimated by Forbes at $46 billion, and this amount will escape virtually all federal taxation. Moreover, this is also the case for each of the 10 richest Americans — Mr. Gates (Microsoft Corp.), Larry Ellison (Oracle Corp.), Michael Bloomberg (Bloomberg LLP), the Koch brothers (Koch Industries Inc.), and Sam Walton's heirs (Wal-Mart Stores Inc.).


Relative to wealth, my “rich” urologist pays huge taxes, while these folks above pay virtually nothing. Is this “fair”? Moreover, Mr. Buffett's proposal would have virtually zero financial impact on him (and his fellow billionaires), which leads to justifiable charges of hypocrisy. I'm actually surprised that he has gotten away with this so far.


I have a proposal that would be far more “fair” than Mr. Buffett's proposal, and also would happen to affect him personally. I call it the “Buffett/Sanborn rule.” Anyone with an estate over $1 billion pays a federal estate tax of 50 percent before any deductions. Problem of vast untaxed wealth solved.


Mr. Buffett recently signed a letter, along with Mr. Gates and others, calling for a “strong estate tax” because it is “right morally and economically” and “promotes democracy by slowing the concentration of wealth and power.” They note the money is also urgently needed by the federal government. Is it not the height of arrogance for Mr. Buffett to be preaching this when he is doing completely the opposite?


So, Warren, this is now absurdly Orwellian. It's time to embrace the “Buffett/Sanborn” rule or you are just a complete phony.


Robert Sanborn, who managed the Oakmark Fund until 2000, manages a private fund.


Read more: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20121227/OPINION/121229960/buffett-is-a-dope-or-hypocrite-or-both#ixzz2GeXOgy00
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[bucket]

Like I said they have to have their money positioned properly before a deal is reached.

Buffet's estate should be taxed exactly the same as everyone else's. His wealth is his assets and upon his death, he should be taxed accordingly.

He has hid his wealth and his taxes due through foundations. Meanwhile the average joe farmer has his modest farm crippled to the next generation with estate taxes.

[BTO_farmall]

The Big Zero is Speaking LIVE on CNBC. Agreement is within Sights!!!!!!!! WATCH, Heard it here First, Once This Fiscal Cliff BS is dealt with, Next will be The Debt Ceiling Talks, Jesus F#ckin Christ Already, Doesn't This BullShit ever End!!!!!!!!! Only Good thing is, The Repub's hold The Cards with The Debt Ceiling, I say Cut The Big O's MasterCard in Half and let The Chips Fall where They May!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BTO_farmall]

Folks Taxes are a Hoax, Yer Perception of Reality has Been Altered. Its a known Fact The Less yous Tax something, The more Revenue yous will take in as aWhole. If The US Gov. were to Tax Every Citizen, Corporation, Etc. EVERYTHING 100% TAX Rate, Theys only have enough Cash to run The US Budget fer 9 Months, What yous gonna do The Other 3 Months, Nevermind Live on, Since yous are bein 100% TAXED. This is The Reality, Its Called Fractional Reserve Banking. 4Money to Come into Existence, It needs to have attached debt to it (Interest), Say The Cartel Prints $1 Million, Theys only print that $1 Million, NOT The Interest to pay 4that $1 Million to come into Existence. So Tell Us where the Money is To Come From To Repay all The Debt, PLUS The Interest?????? I will tell Yous, The System is set up 4 The Debt to NEVER Be Repaid, And The Banking Cartel Knows This, Its not About Money, Its About Power............

[cottonpicken]

Pretty hard to be deflationary when nobody wants the
bond/currency.

Which is what could potentially ruin canadian's.

[wd9]

AJL, its interesting politicians have no
trouble being identified to causing the
problem, but not to solving it.

[westsider]

Tom, Thanks for posting this article

for any of you that did not know why foundations are set up now you know. when i was in university spent some time studying tax havens etc. basically the founders are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, its a way to save them money, and lots of it and in the mean time screwing you a regular tax payer over because the government needs to take more from you and the other honest people to pay the bills.

so next time you see your local rich guy out in town and everyone else is praising his new foundation you can wink and say, "well played Mauer, well played"

[Burbert]

US has been running round the world
tellin everyone else to get their
economies in order, tax the pissants
more, crush their unions, steal their
pensions, increase security and make the
lower and lower middle classes pay the
taxes. Well this shit has finally come
home ta roost. Good luck Amerikie, wes
all gonna need it. Deal wit it or start
the money presses rolling agin! Its
really very simple two choices....... a
**** it, start the presses, increase the
debt ceiling agin...