Seed Treatment -bee link study?

[chuckChuck]

"Study Counters reports of seed treatment-bee link" Western Producer, Feb 26th.

This is perhaps an example of a study designed by industry to produce the results they want.

Bees were placed in Canola fields at 25% bloom. One field the seed was treated with clothianidin
(neonicotinoid) the other field was not. Since the bees were placed at 25% bloom there was no exposure during the seeding process when dust from the seed treatments would have been present. The scientists conclusion as reported in the Western Producers says "they didn't see any effect from the clothianidin".

In this experimental design that may be true. However it looks like this experiment was designed not to expose the bees during seeding time when they will be foraging on wild flowers.

With millions of acres of seeds being treated with insecticides the dust from the seed may cause bees to be exposed at a critical period. Even if the bees are not killed outright they may suffer from small exposures that make them stupid and sick and not able to do their job.

Europe is moving ahead with a ban based on studies in Europe. Bayer who funded this study, is worried about market loss for seed treatment.

This study done at Guelph is an example of not asking the right questions. This study also sows the seeds of doubt in the public debate about whether we should follow Europe's ban on neonicotinoid seed treatments.

Further research is needed to address all potential exposure routes not just exposure that was intended in this study.

[furrowtickler]

Dust from seed treatments on canola? At seeding time? How is that possible? Seed goes from bag directly to air system then carried directly to seed row - below soil surface.
I call b/s - grasping at straws.

[ado089]

They have already banned our seed
treatments that work. That's okay I hear
spraying decis to get the beetles is way
better for the foraging bees.

[chuckChuck]

One seed company and I am not sure which one ( as reported in the Western Producer) is already looking at reducing dust from insecticidal seed treatments based on some research that showed dust is getting into the atmosphere. How much and at what rate may not be clear yet. At the speeds air seeders travel I don't think it can be assumed that all the insecticide goes into the ground and stays there. It is pretty easy to find seeds on the surface after any seeding operation.

Secondly if it is killing canola or corn pests above ground how do you know it is not having a sub lethal impact on honey bees which are foraging nearby?

That Is why I said more research is needed and not just research funded by Bayer.

You may not care about the impact this has on you, but alfalfa seed producers who use leaf cutters and honey producers have a right to be concerned about insecticides in whatever form they are used. Not to mention the impact on other crops that require insect pollination.

[furrowtickler]

When was the last time you seeded Canola there chuck chuck? Ever hear of polymer coatings?

[chuckChuck]

Furrow, are all insecticidal seed treatments applied using polymers? And where is the research data that shows how effective they are at reducing release of insecticides into the atmosphere?

[ado089]

These seed treatments do a shitty job of killing the target species nevermind strays. They do so by becoming systematic and require ingestion by the pest. Anyone capable of critical thought can see this is grasping at straws. Chances are that the 20 gallons per hour of fuel every machine out there is burning is likely doing more harm than a couple of grams per field of stray low yield insecticide.

[stonepicker]

????? I have bees on my land most years, They are
never out and about in the middle of may, the bee
keeper feeds them ( virtually no flowers around till
later in may/june ) Does any farmer have flowers in his
field when he's seeding ?

[ado089]

Just the organic ones and it's only dandelion.

[chuckChuck]

Posted From the Saskatchewan Bee Keepers web site:

Excerpt from Better Farming
Pesticides used on treated corn seeds “may” have contributed to “at least some of the 2012 spring bee losses that occurred in Ontario,” Health Canada has told Better Farming via email. The email, from Health Canada media relations officer Sara O’Dacre, says other factors are being considered and that “final conclusions” have not been made. “Given the large number of potential factors involved, Health Canada, along with its provincial colleagues, is continuing to examine other factors, including overall bee health, agriculture practices and environmental conditions,” the email says. In early summer, the federal Pest Management Regulatory Agency (PMRA) began a re-evaluation of a group of insecticides used to protect seeds and crops from insects because more than 100 incidents of acute poisoning symptoms were reported to the PMRA and the provincial environment and agriculture ministries. Most occurred in southwestern Ontario. The products being re-evaluated are clothianidin, thiamethoxam and imidacloprid. They are all neonicotinoid insecticides, a class of insecticides that act on the central nervous system of insects and can kill bees. The re-evaluation covers these active ingredients and their associated products registered in Canada. Imidacloprid was already being re-evaluated when the agency announced the review of the other two, PMRA says.

Excerpt from Health Canada
This spring, beginning in April 2012, incidents of bee mortality were reported by beekeepers across southern Ontario. Timing and location of these incidents appears to have generally coincided with corn planting. Health Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency (PMRA) has been working with the Ontario Ministry of the Environment (MOE) and the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs (OMAFRA) to evaluate the role pesticides may have played in these bee losses. Initial analyses of the circumstances surrounding the bee losses indicate that there was no pesticide misuse.

Samples of affected bees were taken at many incident locations and are being analyzed for specific pesticide residues by the PMRA laboratory services. To date, residue analysis has been completed for 104 bee samples, as well as some samples of pollen and vegetation. Analysis is currently underway for an additional set of bee samples. Preliminary residue results show that insecticides used to treat corn seed were detected in approximately 70% of the dead bee samples analyzed.

Based on the preliminary information evaluated to date, there is an indication that pesticides used on treated corn seeds may have contributed to at least some of the 2012 spring bee losses that occurred in Ontario, however, there is still additional information being collected for consideration and final conclusions have not been made. We are looking closely at the specific circumstances that may have contributed to the unusual number of bee mortalities this spring.

The PMRA (assisted by MOE) is continuing to gather information for the purpose of determining the role pesticides may have played in the bee losses, how exposure occurred, and to determine what steps can be taken to prevent future bee losses. Information is being collected from affected bee yard owners/operators to help in the evaluation. Furthermore, the PMRA and MOE staff are contacting owners/operators of agricultural land in the vicinity of certain affected bee yards to collect details on agricultural activities including: crops grown, seeding dates, seed treatments, planting equipment, planting practices used, pesticide applications, weather conditions at the time of planting and other factors that may have played a role in the bee losses.

Once all current samples have been analyzed and available details gathered from the affected bee yards and adjacent agricultural land owners, a final analysis of the results will be conducted. A report will be made available, which will include information on the findings of the evaluation as well as the PMRA's final conclusions.

In the interim, the PMRA will take additional steps to further protect pollinators from potential pesticide exposure, and is working with the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) and other Canadian and international regulatory partners towards this goal. Work is ongoing to ensure that additional safety measures and best management practices to reduce pollinator exposure to treated seed dust are developed and communicated to beekeepers, agricultural producers and other stakeholders prior to th

[furrowtickler]

Chucky, as per canola yes - all seed has a polymre coating. In fact it takes soil moisture to break down these coatings to release any insecticide. Some of the most advanced seed coating polymre's in the world are done on canola here in Canada.
Again when was the last time you seeded canola??

[furrowtickler]

As to how effective they are, polymre coatings reduce "dusting" off by at least 95% compared to stand alone seed treatments. This study is probably based on seed treatments from the early 1990's and before that.

[chuckChuck]

Several of the previous posts are glaring examples of ignorance by self declared experts who seem to think they know everything. Instead of showing your ignorance, try keeping an open mind to the fact you may not have all the answers.

[ado089]

Ignorance is taking one data set without
any context and declaring a thesis. At
best the data you've presented suggest
correlation but does nothing to support
causality. The reality of the situation
is that bees have been dying off in mass
in all corners of the world for decades
and no one knows why. It's simply the
chic thing to do now to blame all the
world's whoes on corporations and
technology instead of taking personal
responsibility for individual actions.

Countinuing on the theme of critical
thought let's consider the dose per
area, the lethal does per individual
and the vector for intake and the time
of exposure for any area and this thesis
becomes pretty weak. But let's for a
moment pretend its true, perhaps this is
a bee management problem not a canola
management problem.

By the way I have three letters after my
name that imply I'm more of an expert on
this subject matter than than some
bohunk with the interweb and too much
time on their hands.

[furrowtickler]

I have been involved in the canola seed industry for 20 years. I have seen most of the canola seed treatments that have ever been offered. I spent 11 years at a seed treating and coating facility and have personaly seen the advances in polymre coatings. So you may think i may be not educated with this issue - try me.
Again what do you know first hand on this issue? How long have you been growing canola and how many different seed treatments in canola have you handled to become a spokesperson on this bee issue?
Ignorance is those who sit in the peanut gallery and spout little of what they know or have first hand experience with.